Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

"

alhazred70 wrote:

Personally I think they should take the Decent race format and add in all the lab elements, mix in every Map tileset, and boss, and every zana mod/former league mod, to make a part of the game that is literally a massive Rogue-like within the game. Call it the "The Helix of The Great Old Ones"* or "The Architect's Spiral"* or some such. IMO such a thing could be the best most varied graphical rogue-like in the history of the genre.

Wow, that would be awesome! :-) So much awesomeness that my glee would spill out all over the forums. And that would be embarrassing.

"

alhazred70 wrote:

I don't need popularty assertions, only people who have no confidence in their argument need "my side is bigger than your side"

Completely true.

"

alhazred70 wrote:

If you don't like lab suggest things you'd like to see improved constructively that don't ruin it for people who do like it, instead of asking for the game to be more cuasualized and more stuff handed to you for zero effort.

Indeed. I don't mind the lab being tweaked, but I'd still like to keep the lab and have a darn good reason for running, as it is right now. The complainers and GGG can push to tweak trap damage, make it less one-try and more three or whatever-try, etc., so long as the lab is still something I can look forward to running at some point in Act IV when I'm just a little over-leveled to enjoy a casual stroll through it in each difficulty.

"

Shogen wrote:

I have 20 toons and what I absolutely hate about labs is you need to unlock 6 trials in normal, cruel, merciless and then map to activate all!

so 24 trial runs + 4 full lab runs to unlock all ascendancy each time you are in a new league sucks.

Secondly, the lab enchants are too randomised and don't feel rewarding with time vs level of effort.

Thirdly, the puzzles are fun initially then it gets old and you can barely stand it anymore because they are just time sinks when you have mastered it. You just want to get through the exits asap. Golden key doors are a prime example of time sink.

Shogen's post made here https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/post-reply/1609216

I'm concerned about potentially derailing that thread and so I'm posting this here.

Shogen thank you for posting your opinion on Labyrinth. I've added you to the list of account names now 698 names.

Here's Shogen's profile.
Joined:
Jul 10, 2012

Last Visited:
Jan 7, 2017

Total Forum Posts:
1184 (0.72 posts per day)

Please note that it would be paranoid to think that Shogen is one of many hundreds of alt accounts being manipulated by a small handful of people disliking the labyrinth that are trying to deceive GGG into believing that there have been many hundreds of people on this forum that have posted that labyrinth would best be changed/improved/fixed when in reality it is really only a small handful of people that believe this and are running an army of alt accounts. There are multiple people that have argued this seemingly crazy conspiracy theory was possible.

A note about my use of the word "paranoid" in the above paragraph, a person that apparently finds it difficult to be objective or is just plainly paranoid himself stated that it is bad for me to use that word because it is nothing but using insults to try to win an argument. This is not true. My own belief is that believing this crazy conspiracy theory is plainly paranoid.

Think how crazy it is. First this handful of people would have to have many hundreds of alt accounts that were created prior to to the release of labyrinth. This would be required because the list analysis shows that less than 4% of the accounts on the list were created after release of the labyrinth. Then they would have to then make many posts that have nothing to do with labyrinth that were made before labyrinth was even released, like a thousand posts in Shogen's example. To me this conspiracy theory is just crazy.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Please note that it would be paranoid to think that Shogen is one of many hundreds of alt accounts being manipulated by a small handful of people disliking the labyrinth that are trying to deceive GGG into believing that there have been many hundreds of people on this forum that have posted that labyrinth would best be changed/improved/fixed when in reality it is really only a small handful of people that believe this and are running an army of alt accounts. There are multiple people that have argued this seemingly crazy conspiracy theory was possible.

A note about my use of the word "paranoid" in the above paragraph, a person that apparently finds it difficult to be objective or is just plainly paranoid himself stated that it is bad for me to use that word because it is nothing but using insults to try to win an argument. This is not true. My own belief is that believing this crazy conspiracy theory is plainly paranoid.

Think how crazy it is. First this handful of people would have to have many hundreds of alt accounts that were created prior to to the release of labyrinth. This would be required because the list analysis shows that less than 4% of the accounts on the list were created after release of the labyrinth. Then they would have to then make many posts that have nothing to do with labyrinth that were made before labyrinth was even released, like a thousand posts in Shogen's example. To me this conspiracy theory is just crazy.

Holy fuck you're still on about that? Further demonstrating that after everything, you still don't understand the underlying issue that was raised.

Talk about crazy, you keep bringing up this "conspiracy theory" thing and you've got the gall to call others paranoid and crazy. Yeesh...

And for the record, conspiracy theories involve more than one person to perpetuate. The issues brought forth only involve one person, you. It's just one more derogatory term for you to throw around though.

"

Shovelcut wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

Please note that it would be paranoid to think that Shogen is one of many hundreds of alt accounts being manipulated by a small handful of people disliking the labyrinth that are trying to deceive GGG into believing that there have been many hundreds of people on this forum that have posted that labyrinth would best be changed/improved/fixed when in reality it is really only a small handful of people that believe this and are running an army of alt accounts. There are multiple people that have argued this seemingly crazy conspiracy theory was possible.

A note about my use of the word "paranoid" in the above paragraph, a person that apparently finds it difficult to be objective or is just plainly paranoid himself stated that it is bad for me to use that word because it is nothing but using insults to try to win an argument. This is not true. My own belief is that believing this crazy conspiracy theory is plainly paranoid.

Think how crazy it is. First this handful of people would have to have many hundreds of alt accounts that were created prior to to the release of labyrinth. This would be required because the list analysis shows that less than 4% of the accounts on the list were created after release of the labyrinth. Then they would have to then make many posts that have nothing to do with labyrinth that were made before labyrinth was even released, like a thousand posts in Shogen's example. To me this conspiracy theory is just crazy.

Holy fuck you're still on about that? Further demonstrating that after everything, you still don't understand the underlying issue that was raised.

Talk about crazy, you keep bringing up this "conspiracy theory" thing and you've got the gall to call others paranoid and crazy. Yeesh...

And for the record, conspiracy theories involve more than one person to perpetuate. The issues brought forth only involve one person, you. It's just one more derogatory term for you to throw around though.

Except it's a direct attack on the relevance of your accusation, one of many which you have failed to respond to in, what? 20 pages of bullshit?

I have been raging about lab in plenty of threads, too.

But let´s face it : they put resources into it, it´s in the game now, and no way they´re going to remove it or do a major overhaul.

Maybe, just maybe we will see some mercy or slight changes (GGG are very good with surprises, the lab itself was a huge one, obviously).

While I am sceptical that we will see any sweeping changes, I also learned to not underestimate their creativity and the stuff they have up their sleeves.

Also, with time I overcame the biggest frustrations and simply got used to/better at it. On a strong character, I don´t even mind giving someone a helping hand now, whereas initially I always replied "no, sorry, I hate the lab and avoid it like the plague"

Perhaps let the discussion rest for now and see what GGG has in store until 3.0 is announced.

Best wishes to everyone :)

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Shovelcut wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

Please note that it would be paranoid to think that Shogen is one of many hundreds of alt accounts being manipulated by a small handful of people disliking the labyrinth that are trying to deceive GGG into believing that there have been many hundreds of people on this forum that have posted that labyrinth would best be changed/improved/fixed when in reality it is really only a small handful of people that believe this and are running an army of alt accounts. There are multiple people that have argued this seemingly crazy conspiracy theory was possible.

A note about my use of the word "paranoid" in the above paragraph, a person that apparently finds it difficult to be objective or is just plainly paranoid himself stated that it is bad for me to use that word because it is nothing but using insults to try to win an argument. This is not true. My own belief is that believing this crazy conspiracy theory is plainly paranoid.

Think how crazy it is. First this handful of people would have to have many hundreds of alt accounts that were created prior to to the release of labyrinth. This would be required because the list analysis shows that less than 4% of the accounts on the list were created after release of the labyrinth. Then they would have to then make many posts that have nothing to do with labyrinth that were made before labyrinth was even released, like a thousand posts in Shogen's example. To me this conspiracy theory is just crazy.

Holy fuck you're still on about that? Further demonstrating that after everything, you still don't understand the underlying issue that was raised.

Talk about crazy, you keep bringing up this "conspiracy theory" thing and you've got the gall to call others paranoid and crazy. Yeesh...

And for the record, conspiracy theories involve more than one person to perpetuate. The issues brought forth only involve one person, you. It's just one more derogatory term for you to throw around though.

Except it's a direct attack on the relevance of your accusation, one of many which you have failed to respond to in, what? 20 pages of bullshit?

Well, it appears that he has refined his conspiracy down to arguing that it is only me that is perpetuating the deception.

"

And for the record, conspiracy theories involve more than one person to perpetuate. The issues brought forth only involve one person, you.

My perspective is that it makes the conspiracy theory even more ridiculous that one person could have some 600 alt accounts squirreled away prior to labyrinth release and that I made all those posts in my alt accounts prior to the labyrinth release in the omnipotent knowledge that someday GGG would release something so horrible as the labyrinth and I'd want to spring my devious plan on the world.

On the other hand more convincing is the evil theory that I'm really Vladimir Putin and I'm using the KGB to run this brilliant plan to cause GGG to spend resources fixing PoE when it doesn't need to be fixed. This will then cause a major impact to New Zealand's GDP causing a domino effect that will topple the financial well being of all of western civilization!!!

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Except it's a direct attack on the relevance of your accusation, one of many which you have failed to respond to in, what? 20 pages of bullshit?

No, it's not. It's sidestepping my accusation to lob a counter accusation. And a poor one at that.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Well, it appears that he has refined his conspiracy down to arguing that it is only me that is perpetuating the deception.

Wait, are you actually starting to get what I'm saying?...

"

Turtledove wrote:

My perspective is that it makes the conspiracy theory even more ridiculous that one person could have some 600 alt accounts squirreled away prior to labyrinth release and that I made all those posts in my alt accounts prior to the labyrinth release in the omnipotent knowledge that someday GGG would release something so horrible as the labyrinth and I'd want to spring my devious plan on the world.

Nope, sure aren't getting it. FUCK!

"

Turtledove wrote:

On the other hand more convincing is the evil theory that I'm really Vladimir Putin and I'm using the KGB to run this brilliant plan to cause GGG to spend resources fixing PoE when it doesn't need to be fixed. This will then cause a major impact to New Zealand's GDP causing a domino effect that will topple the financial well being of all of western civilization!!!

Nah, I'm sure if that was true you'd have gotten the gist of the argument 20 pages ago.

"

Shovelcut wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

Except it's a direct attack on the relevance of your accusation, one of many which you have failed to respond to in, what? 20 pages of bullshit?

No, it's not. It's sidestepping my accusation to lob a counter accusation. And a poor one at that.

(A recap of this thread for newcomers.)

Turtledove: I don't like broccoli. Neither does this list of people I have here.

Shovelcut: That's not a proper list. There are some people who signed that list twice.

Turtledove: Yes, you're right. So what?

Shovelcut: So your data-collection methods are flawed. You are wrong to say that so many people dislike broccoli.

Turtledove: Huh? You really think enough people fraudulently signed the list twice just to convince you that the dislike for broccoli is more widespread than it really is?

Shovelcut: Your data collection methods are FLAWED.

Turtledove: You are ignoring my question... Are you really so paranoid to think that most of those people are fake?

Shovelcut: I am not paranoid. Your data collection methods are FLAWED.

Turtledove: You are ignoring my question.

(repeat about 20-30 times)

gibbousmoon: Shovelcut, your accusation is of limited relevance to the topic of the thread, unless you really believe that most of the people on that list are fake.

Shovelcut: No, it isn't. Turtledove's collection methods are FLAWED.

gibbousmoon: You... haven't addressed what I said at all. Your accusation is irrelevant.

Shovelcut: No, it's not. It's sidestepping my accusation to lob a counter-accusation. And a poor one at that.

"

JabTheHot wrote:

I can't take this lab anymore. This is not the POE I loved so many years ago.
This should not be mandatory for such a critical thing to characters.
It is the only thing that makes me and my group log off in anger and switch to another game from time to time. Its far too long, and a simple glitch will kill you and ask that you start over...
And yes, I did complete the lab before, of course its rewarding when you manage to do it, but its still is the only content I feel has nothing to do with the game style of POE.

A simple solution to help ease the pain would be to put daily waypoints in it that stays active only until you complete the Lab or something like that, deactivating themselves after you complete it. That way if you die because of someone startling you by ringing the doorbell at your house, or that the Lag Monster cought you while opening a strongbox and spamming flashy skills, then you don't have to start over. But, it won't make shortcuts for thoses doing Lab Runs. Fun for everyone. Keeps all minds sane, so less impact on psychologists fees and such.

This is a post from the thread https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/post-reply/1609216. I'm responding in this thread because I don't want to disrupt the above thread.

JabTheHot, thank you for posting your feedback. There are many people that feel the same way. I've added your name to this list of people that have posted in support of the need to fix/change/improve the labyrinth. It's now 699 account names. As the list grows longer our voice grows stronger.

There are some people that have stated that they believe that the list is bogus and really only represents a handful of individuals. The conspiracy theory is that small handful of people had hundreds of alt accounts prior to the release of labyrinth and then pretended to be many hundreds of people that dislike labyrinth.

Here's JabTheHot's profile information.

Guild:
Les fous

Joined:
Feb 4, 2013

Last Visited:
Jan 8, 2017

Total Forum Posts:
12 (0.01 posts per day)

So writing fake posts for JabTheHot wouldn't be too hard compared to many others on the list. Although 10 of the 12 posts were written prior to the release of labyrinth so that would be really weird and maybe JabTheHot communicates with others in his guild and that would be weird too. Why would someone have hundreds of alt accounts that were created prior to the labyrinth release and then post things using this alt account prior to the labyrinth release. Now perhaps this is a fake guild that only alt accounts belong to so I guess we can disregard that detail? My opinion is that this conspiracy theory is plain ridiculous and demonstrates some very poor thinking on the part of people that might buy into it.

I think a more believable conspiracy theory is that it's all a devious plan by Vladimir Putin to disrupt and destroy western civilization through a sinister campaign using the KGB to spread discord and confusion across the Internet. It will all come to a head in a few months when dozens of companies implement bogus features in their products like when GGG makes an alternative way to get ascendancy points in PoE in 3.0. Oh and part of this plan was for example the election of Donald Trump as president in the USA and the Rubie fiasco in India. See how well it all fits together!!!

(Actual recap of this thread for newcomers, without the need for yet another food analogy.)

Turtledove: I don't like the laby. Neither does this list of people I have here, and someone gave me the idea that they believed there were alt accounts posting on the subject. I have gone through every account and determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are only 3 or 4 alts. My analysis is irrefutable.

Shovelcut: Your analysis is meaningless because you can't possibly tell one way or another who is and who isn't an alt.

Turtledove: So you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads?

Shovelcut: No, I'm saying your analysis method is flawed.

Turtledove: Huh? You really think enough people fraudulently signed the list twice just to convince you that the dislike for the laby is more widespread than it really is?

Shovelcut: No! But I think you're being dishonest in the way your presenting your data, adding rhetorical data to give the appearance that the issue is larger than it is.

Turtledove: So you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads?

Shovelcut: No, I'm not saying that at all.

Turtledove: So you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads?

(repeat about 20-30 times)

gibbousmoon: Shovelcut, you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads.

Shovelcut: No, I'm saying that Turtle is being dishonest in presenting his "facts"

gibbousmoon: You... haven't addressed what I said at all. Your accusation is irrelevant.

Shovelcut: Because that's not what I'm discussing. My accusation is relevant to the claims that the OP is making. I don't see the need to address an accusation that I've clearly already addressed by saying that I don't, and never have, believe that.

gibbousmoon: You're just ignoring the question...

20 fucking pages later and you 2 still can't get past that question that I've already answered, that has absolutely nothing to do with the accusations I've made.

Nice try though gibbous.