Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

"

Shovelcut wrote:

(Actual recap of this thread for newcomers, without the need for yet another food analogy.)

Turtledove: I don't like the laby. Neither does this list of people I have here, and someone gave me the idea that they believed there were alt accounts posting on the subject. I have gone through every account and determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are only 3 or 4 alts. My analysis is irrefutable.

Shovelcut: Your analysis is meaningless because you can't possibly tell one way or another who is and who isn't an alt.

Turtledove: So you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads?

Shovelcut: No, I'm saying your analysis method is flawed.

Turtledove: Huh? You really think enough people fraudulently signed the list twice just to convince you that the dislike for the laby is more widespread than it really is?

Shovelcut: No! But I think you're being dishonest in the way your presenting your data, adding rhetorical data to give the appearance that the issue is larger than it is.

Turtledove: So you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads?

Shovelcut: No, I'm not saying that at all.

Turtledove: So you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads?

(repeat about 20-30 times)

gibbousmoon: Shovelcut, you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads.

Shovelcut: No, I'm saying that Turtle is being dishonest in presenting his "facts"

gibbousmoon: You... haven't addressed what I said at all. Your accusation is irrelevant.

Shovelcut: Because that's not what I'm discussing. My accusation is relevant to the claims that the OP is making. I don't see the need to address an accusation that I've clearly already addressed by saying that I don't, and never have, believe that.

gibbousmoon: You're just ignoring the question...

20 fucking pages later and you 2 still can't get past that question that I've already answered, that has absolutely nothing to do with the accusations I've made.

Nice try though gibbous.

I think I see where you are going wrong.

Here, I bolded it for you. This is what I actually said:

"

gibbousmoon: Shovelcut, your accusation is irrelevant UNLESS you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads.

It really is that simple.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

I think I see where you are going wrong.

That's highly unlikely at this point.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

This is what I actually said:

"

gibbousmoon: Shovelcut, your accusation is irrelevant UNLESS you're saying that a small handful of people are responsible for 100s of threads.

It's quite relevant to the claims Turtle is making. But you 2 are obsessed to turn it into something it's not.

"

It really is that simple.

"

Shovelcut wrote:

It's quite relevant to the claims Turtle is making. But you 2 are obsessed to turn it into something it's not.

Then you are misunderstanding his claims and/or the point of the thread. The latter being especially relevant.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Shovelcut wrote:

It's quite relevant to the claims Turtle is making. But you 2 are obsessed to turn it into something it's not.

Then you are misunderstanding his claims and/or the point of the thread. The latter being especially relevant.

I reiterate:

"

But you 2 are obsessed to turn it into something it's not.

My understanding is just fine thank you. Fret not, this is the last response you'll troll out of me.

"

Shovelcut wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

"

Shovelcut wrote:

It's quite relevant to the claims Turtle is making. But you 2 are obsessed to turn it into something it's not.

Then you are misunderstanding his claims and/or the point of the thread. The latter being especially relevant.

I reiterate:

"

But you 2 are obsessed to turn it into something it's not.

My understanding is just fine thank you. Fret not, this is the last response you'll troll out of me.

I sincerely doubt that. So I'm a troll now, eh?

There is nothing blameworthy about not understanding something, including the point of this thread (enumerated in the OP). People misunderstand things all the time (and I am no exception, for the record).

But you seem not to want to understand it, because doing so would undermine your own position. That is very much blameworthy, as are all acts of willful misunderstanding.

IDK if you are trolling or not, but you are de facto insulting our intelligence by trying to explain that the sky is blue.

We are like way past that, it doesn't makes a difference how it ends.

We've known for long.

"

qwqwqw333_final wrote:

IDK if you are trolling or not, but you are de facto insulting our intelligence by trying to explain that the sky is blue.

We are like way past that, it doesn't makes a difference how it ends.

We've known for long.

Huh?

If someone requires convincing before he will believe that the sky is blue, the person doing the convincing is hardly insulting his intelligence.

In any case, I am not interested in convincing Shovelcut of anything. But I happily call out bullshit when I see it, because it prevents people from having any meaningful discussion.

I'm going to request this thread to be locked. It's been nothing but back and forth accusations and mud throwing for the last 20+ pages and Lab isn't going to change anyway.

This is not doing anyone any good anymore.

The only real claim I've made about the list of account names is from the OP,

"

The purpose of this list is not meant to "tag" anyone into any particular camp. It is meant primarily to demonstrate that many people have things about labyrinth that they think can be improved upon. Unlike the false assertions by some that have argued against any need to fix this problem there are far more than the 5, 10, or 20 that they incorrectly asserted have posted in support of changes. This list blows those silly assertions out of the water.

This is the reason I think that Zaludoz originally created and posted the thread on September 14 when the thread list count was at 248 and account names in the list was 582. When the thread list count got to 265 threads I decided to try to keep the list up to date. There have been many paranoid people like Shovelcut that have falsely speculated that a handful of people are responsible for all of the posts saying that labryinth has problems. The purpose of the account name list is to show this assertion as false. Lagwin made the assertion something along the lines that "Have you proven that all threads in the list are not alt accounts so that we can know that the list isn't made up of a just a handful of people". I responded yes and gave the description of what the analysis of each thread showing that less than 4% of the accounts on the list were created prior to the release of labyrinth. Since the only way I saw that such a conspiracy would be reasonably possible is if someone was able to create alt accounts after release of the labyrinth.

Shovelcut attacked and said I couldn't claim outlandish things. He apparently got stuck on Lagwin's first phrase when stating his theory "Have you proven that all threads in the list are not alt accounts so that we can know that the list isn't made up of a just a handful of people" and became fixated on the first half of the statement instead of the conclusion of the statement. When I later asked him if it was just a misunderstanding and he had misunderstood I think his response was something along the lines of no I'm being deceitful. Shovelcut is just plain lying when he claims that I said "I don't like the laby. Neither does this list of people I have here, and someone gave me the idea that they believed there were alt accounts posting on the subject. I have gone through every account and determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are only 3 or 4 alts. My analysis is irrefutable. That is a bullshit lie and proves how full of shit this man is." Plain and simple, Shovelcut is plain lying.

lie #1 I say that the list represents people that agree the labyrinth needs to be fixed/changed/improved.
lie #2 I said there were maybe 3 or 4 obvious alt accounts and gave the example of someone posting from an account that was created December 20, 2016. The beyond a shadow of a doubt is just more of Shovelcut's despicable lies. There is no proof that these 3 or 4 accounts are duplicates for people already in the list. I even sent a PM to the fellow with the December creation date asking if he was already on the list as a different account name.
lie #3 I never saidd my analysis is irrefutable, just more of Shovelcut's despicable lies. I did claim that it was proven that it is more than a handful of people represented by the list. Shovelcut apparently disagrees and talked about irrelevant things like not being able to tell the difference between an alt account and a non alt account and so it's impossible to say that there aren't many hundreds of alt accounts in the list and there's only a handful of people actually represented by the list. When I ask why would anyone have 100's of alt accounts squirreled away with posts from them prior to labyrinth release he has no answer. The only thing he's said recently new about it is that he thinks it is just me and not a conspiracy.

He ignores that Zaludoz created the original list. Let's look at his profile.

Avatar
Zaludoz

Joined:
Apr 3, 2014

Last Visited:
Jan 6, 2017

Total Forum Posts:
82 (0.08 posts per day)

23 of the posts were made prior to the release of labyrinth. According to Shovelcut, he'd probably say you can't say that Zaludoz is not my alt account. I think you can very reasonable discard that as completely unreasonable. I'll let the reader decide though on their own. One could easily compare Zaludoz list of 582 and look at the 117 account names that I added to it and see if there are any strange things. Shovelcut won't do that. He'd rather cast vague aspersions and dabble in partially formed conspiracy theories.

The point is that the main point of the list is to prove that it is not only a small handful of people posting. Other people have made that accusation not just Shovelcut. Shovelcut just seems to be latest caught up into the paranoid fantasy.

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Xavathos wrote:

I'm going to request this thread to be locked. It's been nothing but back and forth accusations and mud throwing for the last 20+ pages and Lab isn't going to change anyway.

This is not doing anyone any good anymore.

I cannot disagree, but a request for a thread lock by someone who is

A. not the thread's author

and

B. an outspoken opponent of that thread's message

is tasteless at best (if not abusive of the reporting function). And that's being kind to you.

Based on those two facts alone, your request will likely be denied by GGG.