My 2c on Lab

"

innervation wrote:

You're right, it's tragic. Chris won't tell us exactly what went through their heads when designing it other than 'some books we grew up with had traps and mazes in them and we really liked those books'.

The very essence of a labyrinth is, as you said, 'frustrating, mind wracking, and hopeless'. Unless you watch multiple videos and check a daily website for the layout, this is how you'll feel (which is the polar opposite of what 95% of players want to spend their free time doing).

The defense of 'but it makes your character OP', no matter how true, isn't soothing to a more casual player like the OP going through the lab a first or second time. It's akin to saying 'but you get 25,000 dollars after you eat the shit, just deal with it!'. It may be nice to have 25k, sure, but it doesn't make the shit taste any better.

And since this is a world where the devs can replace the shit with ice cream, or pizza, or even a neutral tofu, we'd much rather they go that route.

+1

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Business 101, people dont give a shit about the customer, they care about money. Welcome to real life kiddo.

Hmmm, and where do money come from? The quoted comment is beyond ridiculous, hands down in the top 3 most ignorant comments ever posted in PoE forums.


Just a bit of helping information regarding ACTUAL business rules, and not the bullshit you try to spread.

I) A customer has already made the step of taking money out of his pocket to give to the company

II) A new potential one hasnt made that step, and that step is the biggest and most difficult to make.

III) It is easier and economically beneficial for any company to retain a customer rather than gain a new one.


Living under bridges and asking for troll toll is easy, go back to it.

You literally just listed the reasons as to why GGG doesnt give a fuck about the people complaining because the majority of them arent supporting the game to begin with.

If youre a supporter and youre complaining, they already have your money.

Nice one though with the classic "troll" insult.

Edit - By the way, if youre such a good business man why are you sitting on the forums bitching all day out of curiosity ? Oh, well thats self explanatory so you dont need to answer that.

:D

Sure is easy to talk like you know shit when your actions say otherwise bro. Just a tiny suggestion though since you insist youre such a good business man.

Go make your own game since you clearly think you can do better.

Feel free to come back and let me know how that goes.

"

ventiman wrote:

Ahhh tinfoil i hope you are still around for the i told you so moment

On that day i make a collage out of your best bits


Buisness 1 o 1 an unsatisfied customer leaves and its hard to get him back

We will all laugh hard looking back on the vocal minority fairytale

but you are still here.



Lab was a way - maybe not the most elegant but one of the best possible - to make this game at least somewhat skill-based again. current game is:

- mindless leveling. when something gets added to make it less of a bore-fest (prophecies) people complain because it 'slows them down is not worth their time'.
- mindless build-creation process: slap as many %MORE multipliers, pick a FOTM skill, play ranged. congrats, you already have 95% chance of facerolling ENTIRE game
- mindless end-game: right click on mobs you cannot see (gfx vommit), to kill them before they can even react, run leaving most of the loot on the ground. when people die more to sleep depravation than dangerous mechanics it is a sign of game becoming a zombie-zone


any bump on this mindless grind causes extreme aggression. maybe it is because it disturbs the self-image of superiority (i can speed run Gorges! white ones but still!). Lab is such bump - the rewards are sooooo sweet yet the price is high (risk of failing hurts way more than that time spent there) so people feel forced to do it. yet they hate that they are forced to check themselves.

and cheap'o FoTM copypasta builds that oh-so many players use are not enough to clear it. one has to have a clue to complete it.

if one completes it and still doesnt like it - fine. but quite a lot of complains are from people that did not succeed at the first time and since then hold a grudge and instead of improving and moving on will waste months (4 months already) whining like little kids. throwing tantrums, creating smurf accounts to make a minority even more vocal.

game is old. game is pretty much dying because of stale development. new leagues are minor (Despite all the costs etc - players do not care about costs), they do not change stuff. ascendancy and lab is a first large scale game change since introduction of maps. people do not like changes. but if poe is to survive (because people are getting bored, i myself am getting bored already) it has to do radical design changes. people will leave anyway - but without adding/changing stuff there is no chance new ones will join.

and - the perandus ('all kids get a medal!' league) was a HUGE mistake. it is very easy to create a 'we are all winners' league. but it is difficult to top it. people expected it, people did not get it, they are not happy. instead of free stuff theyve got free challenge. 'challenges are not worth it' - they impede gorge rotas

i can cheeze it. other seasoned players that know what to do - know how to cheeze it. im not even good at speedrunning it (when tried i managed ~4.5mins when top times were ~3mins - so there are A LOT players better than me).


mr CopyPasta with his 3.4k health tornado shot build clearing Gorges (because he offscreens everything) without risk WONT cheeze it. and because he thinks he is 'a god' of this game (clearing endgame content without a risk makes people think that way) he is not really willing to accept that his character is clearing gorge not BECAUSE the player is good but DESPITE him being crap at this game

such revelations hurt and people that are affected (mostly self-made gods expected to faceroll no matter what 'because they copypasted the good build') got hurt the most. some improved and do not suck no more (most of them are most probably also able to speed run it), some spent last 4 months whining and moved nowhere.


people without challenges to overcome are not progressing. most challenges arent 'fun' either. with current power creep and game being literally snoozefest because nothing is dangerous anymore - the lab is the only speed bump. something that forces people to at least think for a while about their build in terms other than 'deeps'

"

I_NO wrote:

If it makes your RIDICULOUSLY OP then you deserve to suffer like there's no question about that.

Like lab talents are so fucking broken it's unreal yet some of you complain about it It's actually fascinating and that's what it's meant for it to do feeling your hopeless in most cases but when you get the fuck out of that zone and fuck Izaro up in 1 shot then get the most broken shit in the game then it feels god dam good.

Orgasmic.

except my fucking spectres can't keep up with me and we have a 6 sec cooldown on convocation.

Cucked.

"

databeaver wrote:

I've yet to hear a solid argument for why spending 20 hours (assuming a non-godly player here) running through four acts on three difficulties is okay, but spending an extra 1-2 hours on running the labyrinth three times is not.

Spending 20 hours of fun is okay for me, because I just play for fun. Running labyrinth 3 times is like one or two hours of boring tedious and not fun time. Which is not okay for me.

Edit: If that is not a solid enough argument for you then how about, GGG is not getting another dime of donation from me until I'm no longer forced to do the Labyrinth. If that is still not good enough argument then we would have to get into an area that really only GGG has numbers on which is how many people agree with me on that.

"

sidtherat wrote:

Lab was a way - maybe not the most elegant but one of the best possible - to make this game at least somewhat skill-based again. current game is:

- mindless leveling. when something gets added to make it less of a bore-fest (prophecies) people complain because it 'slows them down is not worth their time'.
- mindless build-creation process: slap as many %MORE multipliers, pick a FOTM skill, play ranged. congrats, you already have 95% chance of facerolling ENTIRE game
- mindless end-game: right click on mobs you cannot see (gfx vommit), to kill them before they can even react, run leaving most of the loot on the ground. when people die more to sleep depravation than dangerous mechanics it is a sign of game becoming a zombie-zone

Well, now there are mindless Lab builds (more "expensive" than they used to be now they're popular, but possibly still "cheap" and "affordable").

And you forgot to add:

- buy required items for you FOTM build.

Seems like the Lab is only going to make that worse. I'm starting to feel like PoE is going the way of Zod rune words in D2.