My 2c on Lab

I'd pay chris wilson 2ex to completely rework lab.

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sidtherat wrote:

i can cheeze it. other seasoned players that know what to do - know how to cheeze it. im not even good at speedrunning it (when tried i managed ~4.5mins when top times were ~3mins - so there are A LOT players better than me).


mr CopyPasta with his 3.4k health tornado shot build clearing Gorges (because he offscreens everything) without risk WONT cheeze it. and because he thinks he is 'a god' of this game (clearing endgame content without a risk makes people think that way) he is not really willing to accept that his character is clearing gorge not BECAUSE the player is good but DESPITE him being crap at this game

such revelations hurt and people that are affected (mostly self-made gods expected to faceroll no matter what 'because they copypasted the good build') got hurt the most. some improved and do not suck no more (most of them are most probably also able to speed run it), some spent last 4 months whining and moved nowhere.


people without challenges to overcome are not progressing. most challenges arent 'fun' either. with current power creep and game being literally snoozefest because nothing is dangerous anymore - the lab is the only speed bump. something that forces people to at least think for a while about their build in terms other than 'deeps'

Please stop with the wrong view that the Labyrinth must be "cheesed", every decent "gamer" that invests a bit of time, has some skill and is determined to finish some content will manage it sooner or later, the problem was with the tediousness of the process regarding the implementation made in PoE (due to the lack of "fun" I might not go in the Uber Labyrinth soon, but I know can finish it, or even "cheese" it if needed, I just don't want to do that).

Some mentioned the side areas and traps in Torchlight 2, their unforgivingness, but also conveniently forgot the lack of technical problems - no lags/disconnects/FPS drops on non faulty hardware, even with heavily modded content - which made the experience a lot better than the one displayed in PoE.

The way PoE grew so much was by placing the options in the "gamer's" hands. It's sad to see the Labyrinth as a step backward, when it could have been so much more - you know the very concept implies that racing it won't be rewarded, but the "speed meta" just wins hands down. It should have been dangerous, it should felt scary and it should be the pinnacle of a thrilling journey. Right now, it is simply not...

There should be a better way to gear check, to skill check or even to check the patience of the PoE players. I always supported at least a mandatory 10% XP loss across all difficulties on Softcore, if deleveling isn't an option. There might be lots of views regarding the one chance to finish the Labyrinth, but I would like to have a few chances to try and beat the content as there are lots of factors when something goes wrong.

I'm in for a more difficult PoE (Izaro fights are a treat), which has the same feeling of "fun" from 1-100, but only by making the content harder but fairer in the same time - one shots that don't account properly for defences or reflect mechanics, are not ideal and I can only hope that future balance changes will make them obsolete.

And could we stop getting a "faux HC" feeling during Softcore, for those that enjoy trying to finish everything in one run could we get a "permanent test" league that reduces every portal number to 1 or at least 3 and always brings the bosses back to full life then? You just won't lose the character but have a more HC feeling - I'll pay for it even if I'm not into it, just because the current way of doing this with Labyrinth feels so wrong. That way maybe HC will get to be truer to it's name, especially if they implement an logout delay...

It's nice to be part of a community so invested in a game, our views and feedback feel taken in account by the GGG, even if the outcome is not always the one we wanted, and for that very reason I'll support them in every way I can.

I really hate the Lab. My insanely OP char, which can kill the hardest shit in maps, is cut to pieces by a trap (percent based HP dps). It is fucking stupid game play. Come GGG, what were you smoking when you came up with this fucked design? Yes, i am pissed off with the LAB. Probably not play this game anymore beacause of it.

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Culblade wrote:

I really hate the Lab. My insanely OP char, which can kill the hardest shit in maps, is cut to pieces by a trap (percent based HP dps). It is fucking stupid game play.

It's 100% skill check & knowledge based. Traps can be done naked, wearing only MS boots and appropriate flasks. Your million DPS mirrored dagger vaal regalia set doesnt matter... that's kinda the beauty of the Lab :)

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morbo wrote:

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Culblade wrote:

I really hate the Lab. My insanely OP char, which can kill the hardest shit in maps, is cut to pieces by a trap (percent based HP dps). It is fucking stupid game play.

It's 100% skill check & knowledge based. Traps can be done naked, wearing only MS boots and appropriate flasks. Your million DPS mirrored dagger vaal regalia set doesnt matter... that's kinda the beauty of the Lab :)

I understand that. What I hate is having to go thru all those damned trials just to get to the lab. Tedious, boring shit. Just take flasks? Why should a char that has completed mericless get cut down so easily in normal or cruel? That's what pisses me off with the game. Ok, make the actual lab hard, but why do we have to go thru all the boring shit before hand?
I like the game in general, but i think i will not bother with the lab crap in future. As people say, you are not forced to do it. Same as you are not forced to try to six link something (yet another fucking joke?)

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

That's just it. It's not a challenge. I'm a self finding baddie and yet in my few lab visits, have figured EASILY how to cheese through it.

The ease of it STILL doesn't make it any more enjoyable.

Why would anyone who dislikes being in there it even want to learn how to cheese through it and find out how truly simplistic it is? It doesn't matter how easy it gets for the people who hate it. Each time they go in, they'll dislike it more.

It's not 'overcoming a challenge', because it's barely a 'challenge' at all.

When I finish the thing, I don't say "oh YES I beat it!" I say "why did I do that to myself?"

There's no sense of accomplishment, because none of it was difficult. Only annoying.

So it seems that we can agree the lab would be more enjoyable if it were harder, yes?

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Anything further in the current direction would be even MORE ridiculous.

I thought the same thing before 2.3, but GGG had the other ideas apparently. Get ready for that Pitfall action, coming in 2.4.

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toyotatundra wrote:

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Anything further in the current direction would be even MORE ridiculous.

I thought the same thing before 2.3, but GGG had the other ideas apparently. Get ready for that Pitfall action, coming in 2.4.

The uber lab was already in development before Ascendancy was released. It was behind schedule and so was not released with the rest of ascendancy. In 2.3 they just finished it up and released it with prophecy. I expect/hope that GGG will make the Labyrinth optional in 2.4. If this is not the case then my view is that there will be nothing left to fight for and the game I loved is lost forever. Then the problem will be solved for me that way.