Let's Talk Compromise

Obviously, the community is very divided over how the Labyrinth has been set up. Much of this division is over the issue of traps. Lots of people have declared that they either have quit playing for now because of the traps or they are on the verge of doing so. On the other side, many people see the traps as either too easy to complain about or too exciting to give up.

There are plenty of other threads for people to debate the merits of these particular arguments, but no matter how much people argue over it, nothing can take away from the inherent validity of the preferences of each individual when it comes to a game. It's important that as many people as possible be happy with how the game is set up. For this thread, I was hoping that we could talk more about what we would be willing to accept. To those who hate traps and feel demotivated by the current setup of the labyrinth, what is minimum that would need to change in order to get you pumped up again? To those who love traps and are excited for the new development, how much change could you tolerate without it taking too much away from your experience with the game?

Leave the Labyrinth alone. If they need another way to get Ascendancy points then have two ways to get them. Either you can get them in the Labyrinth like now, or you can get them some other way later. That way you at least get them first if you do the Labyrinth and you have to wait a bit if you get them with the other method. You could get them from say completing the current difficulty but getting them from the Labyrinth first gives you that power boost to get through Act 4.

How many threads are you going to make about the Lab what the fuck guy lol

People with complaints are more likely to post than people that are happy.

"

Telzen wrote:

Leave the Labyrinth alone. If they need another way to get Ascendancy points then have two ways to get them. Either you can get them in the Labyrinth like now, or you can get them some other way later. That way you at least get them first if you do the Labyrinth and you have to wait a bit if you get them with the other method. You could get them from say completing the current difficulty but getting them from the Labyrinth first gives you that power boost to get through Act 4.

I'm kind of in the middle in this whole debate. I was excited by the idea of the Labyrinth, and I like it being a requirement for the Ascendency Classes, but I feel that the traps are just too unforgiving to be able to make it past the Labyrinth in Hardcore. A lot of people say that the traps became really easy for them once they learned how to do avoid them. If I too would also be able to get through them easily once I had some practice, I'd be pleasantly surprised, but I'd prefer that lower difficulty levels are forgiving enough that they offer a fair chance to get that kind of practice, even if I just play in Hardcore.

Another way to accomplish what you suggest here is to make trap damage not scale with energy shield + life, which would mean that overleveling could be an alternative way to mitigate the risks of the traps. That was my first reaction to my first death in the labyrinth, and it's probably how a lot of other people will react because they don't know that trap damage scales with energy shield + life.

Traps are not thaaaaaaat lethal, except some gauntlets (yesterday one was a dead end after using a timed mechanism, I would have been fucked if I hadn't figured it out). I have died to traps only once from the beginning, and no, I didn't rely on insta regen pots.

That being said, possible compromises:

-You can use portal six times, map style (it makes learning easier), or the lab could be made shorter for Normal and Cruel.

-Damage should be more forgiving for ES.

-Alternate ways to get the points with a higher opportunity cost (I don't think giving them after Malachai in the same difficulty makes sense; Malachai is easier than the whole labyrinth affair). I'd put it in a very scarce orb, or if tied to Act IV, I'd put it in the next difficulty (for example, Cruel Malachai for Normal lab, Merciless Malachai for Cruel Lab, and Core Malachai for Merciless Lab).

PS: don't expect a lot of compromise with the "Labyrinth is an atrocity, it bores me to not play linear stuff, I hate Prince of Persia/Mario/Tomb Raider, ARPGs should follow my arcane mandates" crowd. Nor with the ultrahardcore crowd, I guess ("git gud, I can do it in five minutes lol").

Another compromises:

-Make the enchantment grind less stupid (people are supposed to trade to make it bearable...but you see, there are some self found, and people that can't make a trade scheme around that).

-It could be higher level in Merciless so it's a good farm spot.

see no reason to change anything

traps are easy. pretty braindead easy in fact. once one puts some time into practicing them - like 20 mins? 30 mins? running headless-chicken into it believing that 'insta pots make you immune to traps' killed many and will kill scores more

level is on the spot - it is great challenge at ~68-70, it gives very good experience around these levels - it is in fact comparable with Dried Lake when used to level up. and it is BEFORE act 4 - making act 4 much more 'in line' difficulty wise with act 3. that was the missing bit of leveling content act4 obviously missed on release

the rewards for speed running it are obvious - enchants. when one takes their time and farm argus and get all 4 keys he is likely to find 1-2 UberArcanist boxes plus other loot. people farming darkshrines are also not complaining. the rewards are there

side note: common complaint is 'too low of a level to drop anything interesting'. this is some elitist bs right there. all-T2 item is pretty much godly and most of us here never had it drop. what people miss when not farming top lvl zones is top bases (that make difference only for few pieces) and old T1 + new T1 affixes (not all affixes got new T1 rolls). what makes this even better is that some of these claims are made by people farming dried lake

ive heard a good idea - make normal lab require one izaro fight, cruel two and merciless be full length. while it seems ok it makes the ascendancy no-effort endavor and as such ruins the entire contcept

note: i 100% agree that common tech issues people encounter should have been fixed BEFORE release. these are unexcusable. but these are not Lab related but tech related and should not be used to gut Lab and make it yet another right-click-to-victory area

"

sidtherat wrote:

see no reason to change anything

traps are easy. pretty braindead easy in fact. once one puts some time into practicing them - like 20 mins? 30 mins? running headless-chicken into it believing that 'insta pots make you immune to traps' killed many and will kill scores more

level is on the spot - it is great challenge at ~68-70, it gives very good experience around these levels - it is in fact comparable with Dried Lake when used to level up. and it is BEFORE act 4 - making act 4 much more 'in line' difficulty wise with act 3. that was the missing bit of leveling content act4 obviously missed on release

the rewards for speed running it are obvious - enchants. when one takes their time and farm argus and get all 4 keys he is likely to find 1-2 UberArcanist boxes plus other loot. people farming darkshrines are also not complaining. the rewards are there

I think traps are easy too, yet, haven't you thought you are a lot more skillful that the rest of the playerbase? I think there is a case to made for ES builds (about reducing difficulty, some people have tried like 40 times before giving up) and about regen builds (to make it less trivial for someone that combines enough skill with pots).

About Enchants, even speedrunning them are a long grind. I don't think the time needed for get a good one is bad, yet the psychological aspect of it was truly poorly implemented. Not sure about possible solutions.