Let's Talk Compromise

Save points for a price? How about I buy the ascendancy points for a price. Seems less convoluted and fits nicely with the other non-mandatory content.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Save points for a price? How about I buy the ascendancy points for a price. Seems less convoluted and fits nicely with the other non-mandatory content.

You can already do that. There are enough people running the lab for a few Chaos.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Sorry I think that you still haven't given any real reason against the proposal. You seem to be saying that one has to run labyrinth because one has to run labyrinth. That is not really saying anything. It is just repeating a tautology. So what if they wait until Merciless? If people want to rush to end game and skip quests then fine and good. People do that today, I would assume for other quests? If that is what people want to do then what is the harm? Sorry, your argument doesn't make sense. How is that really discouraging people? It is in fact doing the exact opposite. I don't play the boring tedious frustrating and not fun labyrinth. The labyrinth discourages me from playing PoE. GGG should want to encourage people to play PoE not discourage them?

Well, if you don't understand the problem with that, that's on you. I won't oppose putting AC points elsewhere, but I still disagree with gating it behind Malachai (Specially on the grounds that the real difficulty of that fight is zero). Let's agree to disagree.

"

Perq wrote:

5) Allow save points... for a price

There could be a option to allow save point after Izaro's fights, for a price of, I dunno, few c?
On the other hand, this might lead to people complaining a lot about their lost currency... urgh.

Or maybe allow save points, but after you save, you get even more Exp penalty for dying in the Lab?
On the other hand, people will simply run it at 0% EXP...

I really wish there was an easy solution for this, but simply allowing people to zerg-force it (just like other things in the game) is a no-go for me. This is what Lab stands for me - you either know how to do it, or you die trying and learn. If you cannot learn, you don't get it.

What about giving six portals, map style? That's a good compromise between making each death matter and being completely unforgiving? You'd still have to do it in a run, but you can recover for mistakes in a limited fashion.

"

6) Rewards for completing it for the first time

People say they don't do it after doing it for the first time. How about we give them a lot more rewards for completing it for the first time? How about allowing player to open all of the reward chests? Extra 5 keys? Bonus 5 enchantments?

Hmm... don't you get the ascendancy points after doing it for the first time? That should be reward enough.

"

2) Traps are not balanced properly

They are very hard for some builds (hybrids, low-life, ES in general, low movement speed) and almost non existent for others (extreme movement speed, life, etc.). That is not the point of traps. This needs to be addressed by GGG. This can be even done by slightly decreasing the damage overall, but making it much harder for builds that find it too easy.

Yes for lowlife they are a bit harder. For Hybrids and ES... not so much. Hybrids still have flasks they can pop, they might need to pop the entire flask, but there are enough enemies to refill them. CI ist likely the easiest since the recovery starts so fast now, that it will recover within the gauntlet. In terms of easyness I would say

Trickster/Occultist CI > Pure Life > regular CI > Hybrid > Low-Life

But for none of them it is undoable, exspecially considering that a char doing the lab for the first time to get the ascendancy points is likely not relying on Lowlife for Normal and Cruel and for Merciless you could just get a high ES pool and it gets easy again.

I wouldn't mind having a bit harder time for my CI char, since the traps almost can't kill him, due to the Occultist node that prevents damage from interrupting your ES recovery.

"

3) Trials of Ascendancy on Cruel and Merciless needs to go

They serve no purpose - Normal Trials are tutorials.

Well I don't mind them. They are incredible short and give some incentive to go to areas you normally skip like Crypt, Hedgemaze and Catacombs. The ones that are on your way anyway (Chamber of Sins, Prison, Crematorium) don't even matter all that much, since they are a few seconds you have to run through them. What I would like is giving some rewards behind the trials, not too much, but maybe always putting a strongbox there would be something that makes them more appreciated, otherwise you really just run through them.


Izaro Mechanics... yeah the golems are not that hard, since it is not too hard to kill them they have very low HP, however the statues and conduit are terrible. It is almost impossible to not have one of the statues carry over, because they have to be disabled all to not carry over but they reactivate after a short time.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

What about giving six portals, map style? That's a good compromise between making each death matter and being completely unforgiving? You'd still have to do it in a run, but you can recover for mistakes in a limited fashion.

Hmmm. 6 sounds a little too many - map portals are mainly a limit of how many junk you can take from one map. Also, I'll still gonna stand in it being harsh, and that the decision to take the extra chance should matter. Simply to not make Lab zergable.

How about putting Cadiro in front of Lab entrance, after you die, so you can buy yourself (and only yourself) an entrance to the room after the last boss fight, you died after? I'm assuming Perandus stuff is going into the main game here. The price could be like 200-500 Coins + maybe some EXP penalty.

"

Hmm... don't you get the ascendancy points after doing it for the first time? That should be reward enough.

Yeah, but people are not happy about doing the Lab enough, it seems. Just trying to give some more incentive into figuring out the Lab mechanics, given some of the do not want to farm it later on.

"

Izaro Mechanics... yeah the golems are not that hard, since it is not too hard to kill them they have very low HP, however the statues and conduit are terrible.

Try it with melee. :P You'll try to DPS them, and Izaro will come after you, causing them to buff him. This is pretty dumb, because there are no range-specific mechanics, and this one is much harder as melee. Not that melee's life is easy, anyway. :V