Let's Talk Compromise

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Really? Traps?? The ones you can leap slam over??? ROFL thats not it at all. Its the tedium of doing EVERY FRIGGING TRAIL on a new character, the wait to overlevel the content before getting those build changing points and the lag/crash prone nature of the whole damned thing.

I only agree with the third one.
How much do you overlevel that place? Are you sure you need it? (I won't say I'm on the level of that place always, but I'm at worst six levels over it the first time).

I completed the normal one when I was level 55(that was before the nerf), the cruel one when I was about level 70 and merciless when I was level 81-82. I did it mainly because the last izaro room lags a lot and I didn't want to get one shot. It still took me several tries on merciless because there the lag spikes were especially horrible.

I see. Well, the technical performance is indefensible, for sure.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Really? Traps?? The ones you can leap slam over??? ROFL thats not it at all. Its 1. the tedium of doing EVERY FRIGGING TRAIL on a new character, 2. the wait to overlevel the content before getting those build changing points and 3. the lag/crash prone nature of the whole damned thing.

Numbers mine.

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Yes.

Should be two different Trials per difficulty, and 2/4/6 different trap types used for Normal/Cruel/Merciless Lab (instead of 6/6/6). Making players repeat tutorials is fucking stupid.

Edit: most likely
Normal: Sawblade and Furnace traps (easily understood, Trials are along mandatory quest routes but not introduced too early)
Cruel: Spike Traps and Spinning Blade Poles (latter Trial moved from Crypt to Catacombs)
Merciless: Blade Sentries and Poison Darts (former Trial moved from Catacombs to Crypt, two most advanced Traps saved for last)

I am sorry but the characters I create are usually late bloomers so I cant complete the labyrinth without being overleveled. The last boss there is more of a gear check than anything else remotely skillful.

Well, Merciless Izaro should be difficult, because even if you don't like it Lab-running is an endgame activity with Enchantment reward and should be challenging. So still No there.

On Normal and Cruel I could understand things being a little more forgiving. Still shouldn't be too easy, but I could accept an "easier than Dominus, harder than Piety" tuning level. So maybe.

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

I am sorry but the characters I create are usually late bloomers so I cant complete the labyrinth without being overleveled. The last boss there is more of a gear check than anything else remotely skillful.

Not true. I could kill it as a melee evasion raider with a few extra levels (five I think, but that's less overleveling on purposes and more how I play while leveling). You can avoid all the hard hitting stuff given that you are not screwed by the technical aspects of the game (the radiant slash included too, you have to look at Izaro's animation and kite).

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

JFC_Bass_Chant wrote:

nothing can take away from the inherent validity of the preferences of each individual when it comes to a game.

I can.

My neighbor owns a pair of young chihuahuas. I hate the little yippers. This is, in part, due to tragic coincidence; in sixth grade, I was savagely attacked by - I kid you not - a cocker spaniel, and had PTSD around small dogs for years. I'd enjoy watching the chihuahuas getting flattened by an asphalt roller.

Is my preference valid?

No. It isn't, because I do not own the apartment, or the dogs. My proximity doesn't imply any voice in decision-making.

You might play Path of Exile. But you don't own it. The people who do are trying to make the type of ARPG they'd like to play. If you want your opinion to become valid, you need to sell your vision so it, too, becomes what they'd like to play.

First of all, your analogy is terrible. You don't need a good reason to like or dislike any particular aspect of a game, but you would need to have a good reason if you were going to kill dogs.

You seem to be misunderstanding what validity means in this context. Having a valid preference is not the same thing as having the right to make a decision. It just means that your preference is your preference, and it is real and you have a right to your own preference. It means that no judgement of another person's preferences can ever make those preferences wrong, so telling people that their preferences are wrong is inherently pointless.

GGG does make Path of Exile, but do you know what else they made? They made the website pathofexile.com, and on that website, they made a forum titled "Feedback and Suggestions." Based upon this, I came to the conclusion that GGG was interested in what players thought about the game, so I when I had something that I felt like saying, I decided to say it. In fact, there is even a thread pinned to the top of the forum titled "We welcome First Impression posts! Please be nice to those posts." In this thread, GGG said that they were interested in what all players had to say, and that even if a new player comes and gives commentary that is directly the result of their own ignorance about the game, such commentary is still valuable to them, because it tells them how well the game gives players information that will affect how they play, and it tells them how well players with limited or incorrect information are able to navigate the game.

This thread exists so that players can give feedback on how they feel about the Labyrinth, especially the traps, and so that we might be able to come up with a compromise that we would all be happy with, which would offer GGG a suggestion of what to do.

Going to a forum titled "Feedback and Suggestions" to tell people that because they don't make the game their preferences aren't valid is something that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. If players shouldn't be giving feedback and suggestions, then a forum encouraging them to do so shouldn't exist, yet, by your own standards, it's not your place to say that, because you don't make the website.

They could make unique map such as "Mao Kun" and "vaults of atziri" just with improved enchanting stuff for players who stays away from lab.

"

Andrius319 wrote:

They could make unique map such as "Mao Kun" and "vaults of atziri" just with improved enchanting stuff for players who stays away from lab.

You could, but why would you?

The Ascendancy points, I can understand the argument that they are mandatory. They kind of are, just as the skill point side quests are kind of mandatory. The enchantments though, they are purely optional. Even if you need one, you can just buy one.

As for the lab itself, I can support what Scrotie is suggesting. That sounds like a good solution, have two trials per difficulty instead of 6. The lab itself... the traps are fine, Izaro is fine (even though I cannot beat him on my current build at level 79), the server stability is not fine. Save points? I don't know. Not really sure that is a good idea, and takes away quite a bit from the lab. If they existed, they should exist after the trials.