[Poll] It's been a month now, how much do you like the labyrinth/acendancy class/enchantments?

^ I am doing the merc lab with a ranged copy pasta 3200 hp build. I think i 3 shot izaro in each phase and i am using a 3 link. Softcore requires too much skill. Thank god it weeds my build out bruh.

Holy fuck people are delusional.

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sidtherat wrote:

it is the perfect way to teach new players this stuff. without the lab the game is so easy that the brick wall new players hit is simply latter on and it is way better to hit it at 30 (Izi) than on 55 (when my first ever character hit it few years ago)

this game is very easy to learn: click to attack, click to move, try to not die. rules are simple. flasks, items, levels etc are the middle layer and then the advanced stuff. Izi fight and lab in general doesnt have anything from the 'advanced mechanics' box in it. the Malachai - on the contrary (degens, mixed ele/phys attacks/spells bypassing 'ususal' defences etc)

i bet that any new player that completes the normal Lab is not going to have a serious issues with the game's difficulty till merc lab and then red maps

you have to teach new players somehow - otherwise they are all ranged offscreen copypasta heroes with 3200 hp running blue maps till they puke. it has to take 100s of blue tier 7-8 maps to reach 90. i saw people complaining about how unfair the lab is with lvl36 life flasks at lvl 80!!

It's your opinion, and I respect it yet my own differ. PoE has succeeded without the lab up until now, there's a reason for that. It's easy for you cause right now you're used to most of it, but to someone new PoE is most likely the most challenging A-rpg he'll encounter these days.

If someone doesn't want to dive into the ongoing meta or just doesn't know about it (which is fine, you can thrive without reading online material, it'll just take longer to get up to par), I'm positive he'll have a pretty hard time with the game, even without the lab.

And it's fair, it's what the game's been about for years.

What I'm talking about when I say "easy to learn, hard to master" is specifically the lab. It'll be hard when you go in at 30-35 in normal, but you'll roll over it at lvl 80.
That and, again, a forced "no death" policy in a "die and retry" environment, in an online context (with all the inherent technical issues) is setting people up for frustration, especially when it's being used as a gate for mandatory content.

It's never been the case even with Malachai, as you could just throw bodies at him until he died, even in it's prime iteration on patch release. Then you'd get better, and throw less and less corpses at him until you're able to kill it reliably.

Some sort of checkpoint/bonfire/extra tries, even limited, would go a long way toward appeasing most concerns, and at least would allow people to reliably get ascendency points and be done with it if that's what they want, while allowing lab runners to keep running it.

You could even mitigate those extra tries by taking away rewards with each death, if you find it too cheesy. First try gets it all, second try only gets the treasure chests, last try only gets the ascendency, or something like that.

Reward the guys that run it efficiently, but don't punish people for wanting to keep playing the game they've been playing for years. Trying to make people fit into a gameplay philosophy radically different from what the rest of the game has been promoting for years will only alienate some part of the existing community, imho.

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Pyrokar wrote:

^ I am doing the merc lab with a ranged copy pasta 3200 hp build. I think i 3 shot izaro in each phase and i am using a 3 link. Softcore requires too much skill. Thank god it weeds my build out bruh.

Holy fuck people are delusional.

quoted for truth.


Labyrinth aint doing shit in weeding out copy pasta builds, its obviously easier to do it with 3k life and 100k dps cause you know killing izaro in under 10seconds is really ez when you go glass cannon cookie cutter.

That order of the white knights surely like their blindfolds.

but the game was not a 'snooze fest' for years. it is so since 2.0 patch that pretty much started the obscene power creep we all ride now. 1.3 was scary compared to what we have now. so it is not a sudden change of a years long course but reverting from a path ggg took - i think - less than a year ago.
we all get used to good (Easy, convenient etc) things easily and it is 'unimaginable' to get back to times before these but i thing these steps need to be taken and the lab with its 'no chicken out' nature is the first step.

what some people complain - mostly bad players previously carried by meta builds - is that they cannot bruteforce the lab the same way they bruteforce maps: offscreen and in case of death to reflect - resurrect and move on. ability to bruteforce stuff and zerg bosses (in softcore ofc) made these self-proclaimed pros 'certain' about their skill and deserved power level. then they meet Izi and their 'build' 'faceroling' high level (blue and easy) maps gets splatted

it does not concern good players - these have no problem with lab - but the Heroes of Right Click are - understandably - furious.

note: ascendancy points are a REWARD for completing something remarkable. these are not to be taken as granted. if one cannot create a build that can complete the Lab then these rewards are - obviously - not meant for him. and i agree with this - there is nothing unfair in the lab, normal was bit rough and got swiftly nerfed. other difficulties are fair. if you can beat Mala FAIRLY (no zerg) you should have 0 issues facing Izi. and in my opinion it is the case

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sidtherat wrote:

what some people complain - mostly bad players previously carried by meta builds - is that they cannot bruteforce the lab the same way they bruteforce maps: offscreen and in case of death to reflect - resurrect and move on. ability to bruteforce stuff and zerg bosses (in softcore ofc) made these self-proclaimed pros 'certain' about their skill and deserved power level. then they meet Izi and their 'build' 'faceroling' high level (blue and easy) maps gets splatted

it does not concern good players - these have no problem with lab - but the Heroes of Right Click are - understandably - furious.

note: ascendancy points are a REWARD for completing something remarkable. these are not to be taken as granted. if one cannot create a build that can complete the Lab then these rewards are - obviously - not meant for him. and i agree with this - there is nothing unfair in the lab, normal was bit rough and got swiftly nerfed. other difficulties are fair. if you can beat Mala FAIRLY (no zerg) you should have 0 issues facing Izi. and in my opinion it is the case

Come on, you can't be believing that.

Bruteforcing and power creep has never been an issue in normal and cruel for they're merely played on the player's way to merciless and endgame. Meta builds still thrives in the merciless lab, way way more than non meta builds, for the obvious reasons people have quoted above.

So if your point is "lab is good because it promotes skill before stats" it's very much a failure on this part altogether. The labyrinth leaderboards, if they ever come, will provide very solid data on this very obvious situation.

Edit: may I add, power creep and bruteforcing debate has not much to do with the no death policy for a lot of players. The no death policy, at least until you overlevel the lab grossly in endgame and disconnects/lags notwithstanding, means you'll lose 30-45 mins of exploring your labyrinth if you have to turn it off quickly because the wife is calling for dinner, your kid is crying or your dog is barking at the neighbour.

That's not an issue I've had until now with PoE, and is by no mean related to a supposed skill in playing the game.

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sidtherat wrote:

note: ascendancy points are a REWARD for completing something remarkable. these are not to be taken as granted. if one cannot create a build that can complete the Lab then these rewards are - obviously - not meant for him. and i agree with this - there is nothing unfair in the lab, normal was bit rough and got swiftly nerfed. other difficulties are fair. if you can beat Mala FAIRLY (no zerg) you should have 0 issues facing Izi. and in my opinion it is the case

Underlined parts.

Takes true skill for someone to contradict himself in the same paragraph. Prime example of white knightism i might add.

How is it remarkable exactly when it is easier than Malachai? Isnt that contradicting with basically everything white knights are claiming about the labyrinth? If malachai is harder shouldnt he award the ascendancy points? Hmm might be the case that you implying that the AC points should be transferred to the harder content aka malachai? Hmmm nice.

How can people even stand that kind of hypocrisy, pseudo-elitism and bullshits? 25% alone votes labyrinth as worst content ever with negative and semi-negative percentage reaching an astonishing 55%+ number. What the fuck do you want more to get that people simply and honestly do not like the labyrinth? It has nothing to do with difficulty, its purely just because they do not find it fun or enjoyable.

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Regulator wrote:

................. 25% alone votes labyrinth as worst content ever with negative and semi-negative percentage reaching an astonishing 55%+ number. What the fuck do you want more to get that people simply and honestly do not like the labyrinth? It has nothing to do with difficulty, its purely just because they do not find it fun or enjoyable.

quoted for truth.

Good job on cutting through the bullshit like Luke's lightsaber through the Taunton.

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buhdunkadunk wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

................. 25% alone votes labyrinth as worst content ever with negative and semi-negative percentage reaching an astonishing 55%+ number. What the fuck do you want more to get that people simply and honestly do not like the labyrinth? It has nothing to do with difficulty, its purely just because they do not find it fun or enjoyable.

quoted for truth.

Good job on cutting through the bullshit like Luke's lightsaber through the Taunton.

The problem is always, the people enjoying something don't come to the forum to take part in these kinda polls.

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Regulator wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

note: ascendancy points are a REWARD for completing something remarkable. these are not to be taken as granted. if one cannot create a build that can complete the Lab then these rewards are - obviously - not meant for him. and i agree with this - there is nothing unfair in the lab, normal was bit rough and got swiftly nerfed. other difficulties are fair. if you can beat Mala FAIRLY (no zerg) you should have 0 issues facing Izi. and in my opinion it is the case

Underlined parts.

Clap clap on contradicting yourself in the same fucking paragraph. Clap clap, white knightism at its finest. Are you even trying? One request from the creator of the white knights bots, please take back the faulty ones for repairs and upgrades. [...]

By remarkable he meant complete the whole lab without dying and crying.
Read the poems in the lab, they talk about the current forum-situation...

@Antaiseito Honestly mate your post and the effort to defend bullshit is exactly like the situation in US atm where women try to defend and still support the obviously misogynistic comments of D.Trump. Like what the actual fuck, kinda of situation, where you wonder if people can actually be so naive and ignorant and then their actions confirm that they have reached a level of (i cant use that word) beyond any imagination.

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Antaiseito wrote:

The problem is always, the people enjoying something don't come to the forum to take part in these kinda polls.

Well let me ask you something then m8, why are those WK-bots spamming in every thread with the lab topic if they are enjoying the content? Why negative feedback threads have reached 10k+ views?


I swear, some of the WK-bots' sole purpose is to infuriate others with ignorance and dumb comments.

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Perq wrote:

Oh, you again. Back to circle-jerk someone who is a big supporter, yet shit on other supporter, because you don't like him. You can call me stupid all day, buddy, we all know who you are, and what you pretend to be.

Also, how about you don't tell people what they should do with their money? Ceri never said he'll cease to support GGG, because Lab. You're not OverLord of Lab Haters Inc., or something. :=)

Oh, you again.

I don't have to resort to childish ultimatums to prove my point. Performance-issues aside, and the Lab excluded, I think the game is in a better position than it's ever been. But, I believe the Labyrinth is garbage and I'm sorry if you have a problem with me expressing that opinion.