[Poll] It's been a month now, how much do you like the labyrinth/acendancy class/enchantments?

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Turtledove wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

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Hubologist wrote:

What I like about arpgs or rpgs in general is that you can be rewarded for game knowledge, and for grinding easier zones if you feel that it is too risky to progress (either because you're underleveled or undergeared). The lab runs contrary to this essential aspect of rpgs.

thist completely shows your lack of knowledge about even basics of lab mecanics.
so you kinda owned yourself.

I assume that what Huologist is refering to is the fact that traps do a percentage of the life pool damage. The life pool for most characters gets larger as they gain levels but the traps at the same difficulty do more since the life pool has grown.

25% is still 25%, doesn't matter if you have 10k life or 2k life.

I also want to know the ARPG in which outleveling content is an essential part of ARPGs. Catching up if you are underleveled (due to rushing content or dying) propably is an essential element, but overleveling was hardly ever possible because you very soon hit a brick wall due to high xp penalties. And if we look at the competition D3 essentially scales the content with your level as many other games nowadays do too. The Lab basically inherits this, although only the traps level with your levels, maybe the mobs should too.

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Emphasy wrote:

I also want to know the ARPG in which outleveling content is an essential part of ARPGs. Catching up if you are underleveled (due to rushing content or dying) propably is an essential element, but overleveling was hardly ever possible because you very soon hit a brick wall due to high xp penalties.

There are two different things here: gaining experience as an overleveled character is rarely possible, but overleveling to get past difficult challenges (end bosses etc.) is very common.

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And if we look at the competition D3 essentially scales the content with your level as many other games nowadays do too. The Lab basically inherits this, although only the traps level with your levels, maybe the mobs should too.

D3, and the other ARPGs I've played that scale content to level, also provide different difficulty setting (easy, hard, etc.) which substitutes for overleveling to get past difficult spots (although it's psychologically different and less immersive -- I'd never want to set a game to easy mode to get past something, but I have no problem overleveling within the game). Of course, you might argue that real PoE players are such tough video-gaming-warriors that it's fine to remove both options.

However it feels really strange and nonimmersive to me to have a mix of content that scales and doesn't scale with your character in the same game. Add to that the fact that the Lab requires different gameplay from the rest of PoE (since you can't overlevel traps, you can't destroy traps, and you can't avoid traps) yet it's required to progress your character, and you get the current mess.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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However it feels really strange and nonimmersive to me to have a mix of content that scales and doesn't scale with your character in the same game. Add to that the fact that the Lab requires different gameplay from the rest of PoE (since you can't overlevel traps, you can't destroy traps, and you can't avoid traps) yet it's required to progress your character, and you get the current mess.

Yes, plus it's not fun game play, at least not fun for some of us. :-)

The lab:

I'm fine with it now that they've fixed many of the balance issues that originally made it awful. All of the complaints I used to post were about how traps negatively impacted some builds more than others. My only real complaint now is with how restrictive uber lab can be, since I've had some builds that just can't handle that last Izaro fight.

Part of that's Izaro being tuned super high and part of it's due to POE's performance turning into complete garbage for me in the past year or so as they've been adding tons of complex effects to the game. Good luck manually evading Izaro's attacks when the fight keeps dropping you to 5 FPS. I also died fighting Atziri yesterday for the same reason. GGG still refuses to add decent graphical options to the game, and their "improvements" are fucking me so hard lately that parts of the game are barely playable.

Ascendancies:

Some are good, some are bad, but I really dislike them being locked behind specific characters. I like to play chicks in games. This means that if I want to play the majority of the Ascendancies, many of which are fantastic for builds I want to play, I have to play a character I don't want to play instead of one I like. This is super shitty, but it's not going to change. I really hate that GGG went gender-specific with classes, though.

Enchants:

I play SSF, only switching to trading late in leagues when I've tapped out everything I want to or can do SSF. Enchants are mostly garbage for me. I've had one appropriate helm enchant ever. The boot and glove enchants are much more achievable, but some of those helm enchants are fucking amazing and the endgame is balanced around having stuff like that now. It sucks.

I like the lab.

I dislike ascendacy, I really loved the fact that any character had access to any passive when I started. The mods are neat but I think it took the game in a bad direction.

I think the enchants are a bad addition.

Poll results, as usual, correlate directly to reward/effort ratio:

Labirynth. Much effort. 1/10
Ascendancies. Much power! 10/10!
Enchantments. Meh power. Much randomness and grinding. But can be bought. 5/10.

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Turtledove wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

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Hubologist wrote:

What I like about arpgs or rpgs in general is that you can be rewarded for game knowledge, and for grinding easier zones if you feel that it is too risky to progress (either because you're underleveled or undergeared). The lab runs contrary to this essential aspect of rpgs.

thist completely shows your lack of knowledge about even basics of lab mecanics.
so you kinda owned yourself.

I assume that what Huologist is refering to is the fact that traps do a percentage of the life pool damage. The life pool for most characters gets larger as they gain levels but the traps at the same difficulty do more since the life pool has grown. edit: For example, if a toon has a life pool of 2000 and a trap did 20% damage then that would be 400 damage. If the toon returned to the same trap with a life pool of 4000 the trap did 20% damage then that would be 800 damage. This is double the damage for the same trap. That is contrary to the way monster damage works in PoE.

shh *bleed immune* *manual immortal call* *mitigation(lc\toh\endch* *infitine hunger*
but you are too lazy to understand such basics and you suffer, and this is good.

in every abyssus build there there is a bunch of stupid monkeys that cry how hard is lab in this build, and, hey, if you run lab in abyssus you goona have hard times indeed. if dont use bleed immune you gonna have hard times. if you dont use immortal call you gonna have hard times. if you cant use whirling blades you gonna have hard times. if you have chelas istead of palms, you gonna have hard times

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mezmery wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I assume that what Huologist is refering to is the fact that traps do a percentage of the life pool damage. The life pool for most characters gets larger as they gain levels but the traps at the same difficulty do more since the life pool has grown. edit: For example, if a toon has a life pool of 2000 and a trap did 20% damage then that would be 400 damage. If the toon returned to the same trap with a life pool of 4000 the trap did 20% damage then that would be 800 damage. This is double the damage for the same trap. That is contrary to the way monster damage works in PoE.

shh *bleed immune* *manual immortal call* *mitigation(lc\toh\endch* *infitine hunger*
but you are too lazy to understand such basics and you suffer, and this is good.

in every abyssus build there there is a bunch of stupid monkeys that cry how hard is lab in this build, and, hey, if you run lab in abyssus you goona have hard times indeed. if dont use bleed immune you gonna have hard times. if you dont use immortal call you gonna have hard times. if you cant use whirling blades you gonna have hard times. if you have chelas istead of palms, you gonna have hard times

Please keep your racist slurs to yourself.

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Terzian wrote:

I like the lab.

I dislike ascendacy, I really loved the fact that any character had access to any passive when I started. The mods are neat but I think it took the game in a bad direction.

I think the enchants are a bad addition.

I actually have to agree with most this. It's bad all around, although Acendancy Tree's are a double edged sword.

The Lab is boring AF and nothing like PoE should be; I absolutely hate when I make a new character and have to do it. I always just have a friend carry my lowbie through and never touch that shit again.

The Acendancies are powerful but do kind of separate the characters a bit, as you said, but they do also open up new possibilities and make each class feel a little more unique, so I'm in the middle. I'd say it's fine.

The enchants are really bad imo, as they are so RNGtastic that really the only way to get the 1/300 or whatever it is you need, then you essentially have to buy it or waste a ridiculous amount of time in Lab, which I already mentioned I hate and never want to step foot into again.

So overall, Acendancy was definitely a step in the wrong direction imo, largely just because it was all mandatory. The power creep of Acendancy made it absolutely necessary to do Lab. If they put the points behind something more PoE-like I wouldn't mind, but I don't wanna play Path of Exile: Shitty Tomb Raider Wannabe Edition.