[Poll] It's been a month now, how much do you like the labyrinth/acendancy class/enchantments?

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Lab is shit
Ascendancy cool
Enchants whatever.

IMO lab should be a 70, 75 and 80 map so you actually get some EXP. Plus Ascendancy so overpowered it should come very late and be very hard to get. Maybe make 3rd set of points like UBER hard.

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kogaratsu wrote:

Also, it's not well balanced in any way. Normal and cruel are overtuned, and can't be done reasonably at the lvl you get access to the lab in those modes (same for merciless, but you have more margin to do it later), which forces you to backtrack and just overlevel it to do it reliably. Then in endgame merciless you just roll over it as any lvl 68 content. Absurd again, if even working as intended.

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sidtherat wrote:

this isnt true. done a clean - minimal twink - character from 0 to merc Izi and have done Lab underleveled as a MELEE non-fotm non-chaos non-cookieCutter build without issues. died, improved, never died again

Izi specifically checks your flasks, your positioning ability and your basic build breakpoints (survivability and damage). most builds these days are 'damage, damage, damage' and these fail - by design i presume.

having on-level life flasks (not some mediums from late act1normal), having granite/jade/basalt or other form of defensive flask (Perandus league gives us this ABSURDLY strong leveling mana flask that heal for 800% of mana spent.. this is just absurdly strong) makes this fight manageable

on the other hand wearing tabula for a 6link and having 3 nodes into life + some incidental +life rolls on gear will kill a character (if player isnt up to the game)

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Regulator wrote:

Spoiler

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Ceri wrote:

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Perq wrote:

People being bad, tanking shit with their faces, letting Izaro get buffed as fuck, and not understanding his mechanics at all, claim shit about Labyrinth being this and that. I was stopping myself from saying this directly, but lets say it out loud:

You're just fucking bad. This is why you hate it. Period.
Instead of trying to get everything down, try getting up for once. Godfuckingdamnit.

You (and others) just don't get it, do you?

Let's try this:

1. I do not think the Labyrinth is difficult, on any difficulty.
2. I have never died to a trap.
3. I do not have a problem with Izaro's mechanics, they are fairly evident after the first few encounters.
4. I have died 3 times to Izaro, first was a oneshot when I didn't know the mechanics - fine. Second was a lag spike - not too fun. Third was my own fault - fine.

Now, that said, let's try this too:

A) I do not enjoy (too) dark and restricted room designs, like the hopeless Chamber of Sins-tileset in the Lab which is full with tiny rooms, almost no light and traps hidden here and there. That's just frustrating and a chore to plough through.
B) I do not enjoy boss designs that require you to have high attack/cast speed and movespeed to survive. This is a cancer that was started with Dominus, and many bosses in act 4 and Izaro are the same. Stand still on one spot for a millisecond too long and you're dead. I think this is cheap and boring design and in particular I think it's annoying while leveling. Endgame, sure, but in Normal and Cruel you really need to make sure you pick these speed buffs early on. I'm annoyed because the game is telling me how to make my builds.
C) The "forced hardcore" thing they did in the Lab, has no place in any game, period. There is a reason we have both standard and hardcore. That I have to restart the entire damn thing because of either my error or internet problems, that's frustrating beyond belief. There is no known universe in which this is considered a good design.

There, those are my top 3 reasons why I dislike the Labyrinth, and as you can see, none have anything to do with skill, gear or build. I know for a fact that others feel the same, it's not about perceived difficulty or whatever, it's just not fun.

Can you respect that?

On-topic:

Labyrinth is a waste of my time, and I'd rather not run it ever again. 1/10.

Ascendancy classes is a good idea I'd love to see more of. Kinda sad it restricts builds to certain classes though - that was always one of the big things about PoE that you could use any class for any build. You still can to a point but not really. 7/10.

Enchantments don't exist to me because I don't run the Lab. Idea? 8/10. Implementation? 1/10.

[Removed by Support]

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kogaratsu wrote:

From a design and conceptual point of view, however, a fresh new player got enough on its plate with PoE at first without having to bother with this kind of stuff, designed to trick him into frustration.

You know what good design is ? Easy to learn, hard to master. Right now it's the other way around.

You could then argue that it's no content for a new player, well then just implement it in the endgame, like Aziri and uber Aziri, not from A3 normal and onward.

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Antaiseito wrote:

Personally i think new players expect a hardcore game when first spotting the passive skill tree and thus are mentally prepared to encounter hard to learn content.
As a somewhat new player I enjoy the lab very much and another guy i brought into PoE when Talisman was almost ending didn't even question the existence of the lab.
He just plays and tries to understand/conquer it because it's part of the game.

I think the problem is more with veterans having to leave their comfort zone of endgame-only-playstyle and being used to conquer everything with time/currency-investment (over-leveling/over-gearing)

For performance/IRL-issues i would actually like a system where you restart at the exact same spot you logged out, maybe with a few second grace period where the traps stand still as long as the player doesn't move, to not instagib before grasping the situation.

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kogaratsu wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

this isnt true. done a clean - minimal twink - character from 0 to merc Izi and have done Lab underleveled as a MELEE non-fotm non-chaos non-cookieCutter build without issues. died, improved, never died again

Izi specifically checks your flasks, your positioning ability and your basic build breakpoints (survivability and damage). most builds these days are 'damage, damage, damage' and these fail - by design i presume.

having on-level life flasks (not some mediums from late act1normal), having granite/jade/basalt or other form of defensive flask (Perandus league gives us this ABSURDLY strong leveling mana flask that heal for 800% of mana spent.. this is just absurdly strong) makes this fight manageable

on the other hand wearing tabula for a 6link and having 3 nodes into life + some incidental +life rolls on gear will kill a character (if player isnt up to the game)

And yet this isn't the experience a lot of players seems to be having. Also : how much time did you spent in there getting better, and how many lvls did you gain doing so ? I've also did the lab on normal without looking at guides and walkthrough, but doing so i've ended up overleveling it, then I just breezed through the rest of normal and onto cruel.

Problem is : I know everything you're telling me. I've got nearly 1k hours in the game. I'm not talking for "veterans" players (more likely "used to put up with the tedium", but still), who know how to beat that stuff, know how to gear up, know the importance of flasks, etc. and in many ways, know how to cheese our way through content.

From a design and conceptual point of view, however, a fresh new player got enough on its plate with PoE at first without having to bother with this kind of stuff, designed to trick him into frustration. It's bad for the game, and it's bad design overall.

You know what good design is ? Easy to learn, hard to master. Right now it's the other way around.