Thoughts from a game dev in the industry ...

As a dev who is not in the game industry, but a very long-time player and fan of game devs' work and passion, I disagree with many points in the OP.

But there are 2 main things I definitely agree with, which are "real time feedback" for the player and a sense of progression.
RNG - in its Path Of Exile form - does something it does not and should not do in a game of this sort: being a nemesis to the player. Creating an overall feeling that something you have zero control of, is constantly trying (and very often succeeding) to fuck you over.

A good system with randomness creates at least the illusion of RNG "being on your side", IF you try hard enough. That's a good example of the "feedback" I'm talking about, and a key component in every long-lasting RPG addiction together with other "mandatory elements" such as Lore and as much optional/hidden/unlockable content and character re-playabilty, as possible.

Path Of Exile does the re-playability part right. The skill tree and gems certainly are - as OP noted - amazing.
Games like Grim Dawn get the feedback part superbly well, and also the lore and content/quests/NPCs.

Mind that Grim Dawn's RNG is actually comparable to PoE's in terms of variance under the surface.
If you want anything specific, you will need to grind your face off for it.
However it does not throw it in your face in "collect scrap" mode like PoE does. Brutally.
Going "you will never win!" like Shao Khan's menacing voice in MK, but without the part where you actually get to kick his ass.

You will get a ton of stuff you can use - if not for this char then the next - and a ton of things usable for recipes/quests etc', while grinding for that one thing you want.
And killing tougher shit generally means better loot. Something I think PoE is notorious for not giving a fuck about.

Sometimes, PoE just feels like working minimum wage for a boss who hates you with a passion.
He even tosses a coin to decide if you get a salary or not. Publicly for you and all the other employees to see. And does so with a sadistic grin on his face.
No game should go there.
Ever.

The whole "I'm a game dev" thing is an argument from authority. Is garbage fallacious logic. Drop it, you are not doing yourself a favour by waving that.

johnKeys, yes the game as always had some issues with the risk/reward equation. I think the lab is a good improvement in a good direction on this. Much of the other complains go away when you embrace the fact that this is a multiplayer game and trading is core and part of it. Is not that hard, accept it and have fun, or just move on (I like GrimDawn a lot too btw, but they are different games, and in the end I always end up playing PoE more). The problem is RNG being involved in content too, specially with th power creep making most content irrelevant and easy.

And smart loot, it to little bang for the buck of what would take to implement it, given what is said above...

"

jcannonb wrote:

This is where the difference comes in at how the public player base is taking my comments.

...

You have no idea of the financial situation of GGG or their plans. Stop pretending you do.

The fact is that PoE has been GROWING its player base since release and on top the company has been growing itself and the staff. Killing the product right now would be amazingly stupid on GGG part, I hope they are more intelligent than what you suggest. By comparison, D3 has been DIMINISHING it's player base since release, which was fr starters riding on a big IP and Blizzard fan base.

As a proclaimed "game developer" (with probably not much actual business experince or running his own company) you should know very few games grow their playerbase over time, and that should tell you GGG has been doing something right.

There are so many wrong assumptions hidden in this posts that it grind me out. You are not as clever as you think you are, stop being condescending and give non-loaded feedback.

"

A good system with randomness creates at least the illusion of RNG "being on your side", IF you try hard enough.

I disagree. A system that is rigid and uncompromising feels much better if you eventually do get the reward. You want Pseudo-RNG drop rates? Crafting?
Why?
It's an RNG based system. Complaining about RNG is like saying chess sucks because it's turn based. Or that you can't use your hands in soccer. You are complaining about fundamental parts of the game.

"

scale_e wrote:

Spoiler

Also, trust me on this, I'm right. I know because I'm a game dev. I'm also a tier one operator with 500 confirmed kills and my dick is huuuggeee!!11!1!

Ah, yes, the classic "torpedo my own argument by being a 12-year-old brat" gambit.

How is it possible you guys take seriously anyone who doesn't even know about the existance of the loot filter?

To the OP: D3 is for noobs, go back there or L2P

"

AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

"

scale_e wrote:

Spoiler

Also, trust me on this, I'm right. I know because I'm a game dev. I'm also a tier one operator with 500 confirmed kills and my dick is huuuggeee!!11!1!

Ah, yes, the classic "torpedo my own argument by being a 12-year-old brat" gambit.

Ah, yes, the classic "age-shame someone because I don't understand the enigma-wrapped-in-a-riddle-wrapped-in-a-mystery that is sarcastic humor" gambit.

Come on man, at least counter my argument before being an arsehole.

"

scale_e wrote:

Ah, yes, the classic "age-shame someone because I don't understand the enigma-wrapped-in-a-riddle-wrapped-in-a-mystery that is sarcastic humor" gambit.

Come on man, at least counter my argument before being an arsehole.

You are literally just taking your opponent's words and turning them around in an attempt to sound clever. And when called out on it, you did it again. That's not sarcasm, that's weak trolling. And the ultimate irony is you calling anyone else an asshole.

God damn, this community is like LoL 2.0

"

AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

"

scale_e wrote:

Ah, yes, the classic "age-shame someone because I don't understand the enigma-wrapped-in-a-riddle-wrapped-in-a-mystery that is sarcastic humor" gambit.

Come on man, at least counter my argument before being an arsehole.

You are literally just taking your opponent's words and turning them around in an attempt to sound clever. And when called out on it, you did it again. That's not sarcasm, that's weak trolling. And the ultimate irony is you calling anyone else an asshole.

God damn, this community is like LoL 2.0

And yet you still aren't countering my argument, merely continuing to take issue with a joke that was in spoiler tags in an attempt to separate it from my point.
You call that humor weak trolling? Fine. That's your opinion. If you want to boil it down that way, go for it. But you said "literally just" before that. A blatant attempt to further cover up the fact you are still not countering my initial point and merely continuing to use ad hominem, I assume, because you have nothing else. I would argue that that is what's wrong with most online communities, and that is those type of people that flood free-to-play communities.

Now, do you have any actual counter points to my original point? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

"

鬼殺し wrote:

"

AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

God damn, this community is like LoL 2.0

Not that I've ever interacted with the reputably noxious League of Legends community, but I'd believe it. And you have folk like me who watched it happen, who literally witnessed the community go from good to bad to execrable, from Closed Beta to Open to Now, occasionally trying to figure it out but mostly just accepting the natural progression of it all.

Very few of the people from then are still here now. Very, very few. Most of the volunteer moderators are gone. A lot of Diamonds and Eternals have pulled away, but more Golds and Silvers than that. Those that put in a substantial amount but quickly realised what they got was not what they felt they'd been promised. Somehow.

You can blame any number of factors, but I'd say the big one, the significant reason why the community has fallen, is because we were so full of hope and belief back then. Too full of hope and belief. That GGG could be Blizzard North Again, and that PoE was the solution to all the problems Diablo 3 aka Diablo By Committee brought to the ARPG table. Of course they couldn't and of course it wasn't. And each update that pulls PoE even further away from being that redemptive work (which it should never have needed to be, really), the community pulls further away from anything but getting the most out of what's left of the game they wanted to play. The game PoE was meant to be, whatever that might mean.

This doesn't include the silent majority because they're only part of the community in passive terms. When we talk about a 'bad community', we really mean the vocal factions. I still don't believe a bad community is indicative of a bad game or an unsuccessful one, merely a very divisive one that brings out passionate responses from all points on the spectrum. And in the end, it's better to have outspoken, passionate fans/players/customers than quiet, bored ones who'll just quit without a word.

Obviously a 'good' community is better than a 'bad', but any sort of community is better than none at all. I think that's pretty much the best anyone can hope for at this point.

Well said.

"

scale_e wrote:

And yet you still aren't countering my argument, merely continuing to take issue with a joke that was in spoiler tags in an attempt to separate it from my point.
You call that humor weak trolling? Fine. That's your opinion. If you want to boil it down that way, go for it. But you said "literally just" before that. A blatant attempt to further cover up the fact you are still not countering my initial point and merely continuing to use ad hominem, I assume, because you have nothing else. I would argue that that is what's wrong with most online communities, and that is those type of people that flood free-to-play communities.

Now, do you have any actual counter points to my original point? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

Frankly, I don't care about your argument, nor was I ever trying to argue against it. I was calling you out on how much of an immature brat you're being, and the fact that nobody is going to give a damn about your arguments when you act like a child.

But to satisfy your little tantrum, I think your argument is weak. You're comparing PoE's RNG to soccer and chess. Not only are these things barely related at all, but both of them are the results of generations of alterations and refinement. Chess is over 1000 years old, for Christ's sake. Path of Exile is barely over 2 years old.

Secondly, nobody is arguing that RNG is inherently bad. You act as if johnKeys was against RNG entirely, when his point was that a good RNG system is not truly random. And this is true. It's not as if GGG is completely ignorant of this either, or do you actually think that Evasion is a true dice roll? It's an old trick in video games, preventing strings of extremely good or bad luck.

Finally, even if these guys are not actually game devs, I honestly don't care. Anyone with the curiosity and free time to spare can learn the ins-and-outs of game design theory easily enough. We live in a time when one guy can launch a wildly successful game from his apartment with no formal education or industry experience. On top of that, there's the old argument that one doesn't need to be Stanley Kubrick to critique a film, and there's no need to be a game developer to know what makes for a good game.

Conclusion? I disagree with you, and you're still a brat just looking for trouble. Satisfied?