Thoughts from a game dev in the industry ...

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goetzjam wrote:

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No SCT still. SCT is satisfying feedback that makes the player feel good about how they are doing. You are literally robbing players of joy.

I'm assuming this is player DPS numbers, like in WoW and D3. If not I apologize I haven't seen this term used at all. IMO this isn't necessary and just further clutters the screen, you can enable monster HP bars and see feedback that way without putting numbers all over and cluttering the screen, in PoE seeing what is one the screen is MUCH more important then other games. Bearers, volatile, ect.

I wasn't sure what OP was refering to either. My guess given context would be social cognitive theory.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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No SCT still. SCT is satisfying feedback that makes the player feel good about how they are doing. You are literally robbing players of joy.

I'm assuming this is player DPS numbers, like in WoW and D3. If not I apologize I haven't seen this term used at all. IMO this isn't necessary and just further clutters the screen, you can enable monster HP bars and see feedback that way without putting numbers all over and cluttering the screen, in PoE seeing what is one the screen is MUCH more important then other games. Bearers, volatile, ect.

I wasn't sure what OP was refering to either. My guess given context would be social cognitive theory.

When I searched for SCT and gaming I found ScrollingCombatText, which leads to information like DPS numbers showing and stuff, no idea if that was his intention or not as it isn't an incredibly common used term or one I've seen used at all in ARPG discussions.

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goetzjam wrote:

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

I'm assuming this is player DPS numbers, like in WoW and D3. If not I apologize I haven't seen this term used at all. IMO this isn't necessary and just further clutters the screen, you can enable monster HP bars and see feedback that way without putting numbers all over and cluttering the screen, in PoE seeing what is one the screen is MUCH more important then other games. Bearers, volatile, ect.

I wasn't sure what OP was refering to either. My guess given context would be social cognitive theory.

When I searched for SCT and gaming I found ScrollingCombatText, which leads to information like DPS numbers showing and stuff, no idea if that was his intention or not as it isn't an incredibly common used term or one I've seen used at all in ARPG discussions.

Ah, yeah that makes sense.

What does SCT stand for?

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mark1030 wrote:

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Further, blizzard's loot drop is 85% smart. Meaning you get an 85% chance of getting an item that is geared toward your class/build. Your loot vomit would not need to be so prolific and noisy if you made it even a 50% smart drop rate.

The difference here though is in D3 making new characters is not really part of the design. In PoE, finding something and saying "I want to make a build using that" is a thing. You're not just looking for upgrades (ie the same legendary or set item with bigger numbers in D3). There really isn't any rerolling In D3. You make 1 character in each class and then just respec whenever you want. Smart loot works for that game because of the design of that game. It doesn't work in PoE. In PoE, if you find a good item that doesn't fit your build, you trade it for something that does. The player is the smart thing in PoE, not the loot.

Yeah, but fully random is basically taking things to the other extreme - assuming every Path of Exile account has or will have one copy of every build, to utilize all possible itemization.

I think the game would benefit greatly from a smart drop system providing the smart drops only applied to non-unique body armour, helms, gloves, boots and shields. I'd probably do a flat rate per class - for example, Marauder gets 40% increased Armour drops, 20% reduced Evasion drops, and 20% reduced Energy Shield drops (stacking for hybrid gear). With a different itemization design I could imagine smart drops working for nonunique weapons as well, but the current design is too attribute-asymmetrical for smart drops to be fairly applied.

Such a smart drop system would save time and effort, in addition to being a self-found boon; more players would find their own upgrades, while simultaneously finding less upgrades for other build types, so it would have the end economic result of completing several "automatic trades" without going through the bother.

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Regarding "verbosity" I tend to side with the OP. Yes, loot filters are awesome and everyone should use them. But they're not a default option, and increase the learning curve for new players in a very weird way. I don't think it's quite right to just say "loot filters" and have-wave off the problem.

Alternate genders should be paid microtransactions. And expensive (after all, expensive to make). Would still be quite popular.

Normal Maps is silly. But I do think Eternal Laboratory map device should be available from Cruel onwards. Once you've played the storyline 1.5 times you shouldn't really need to anymore.

Client performance is toilet-tier.

Boss fights in Path of Exile are fucking amazing. Malachai and Corrupted Piety are both great encounters, and Dominus is a fucking masterpiece. Criticism of them is tantamount to heresy.

Nothing else in OP resonates with me.

The OP wrote his whole post with the idea that D3 was the predecessor to PoE when in fact is is the other way around.

Most of the ideas in D3 came from PoE...but a casualized version of it.

The feed back was professional and well thought-out, but I'm not a fan of the "from a game dev" perspective.

I think all people should give feedback for a game not based on their ability to understand it's coding, but rather how it plays and how the general customer consumes what is being presented.

As a player of this game and D3, I can say that each has their own appeal. The problem with D3 and the smart loot system and the "legendaries everywhere" syndrome is that the loot hunt ends very quickly. And if you are playing an ARPG, the loot hunt is everything.

Also ancient items was the dumbest thing that they could have added to D3. It is pure power creep and added nothing to the game.

D3 paragon, ancient items, "season play" (which basically is standard but starting all over), and crazy drop rate make the game boring after 1 week of play.

imo, there really is no comparing D3 and PoE because PoE is far superior in every regard accept the graphics engine and "smoothness" of gameplay.

From a build, creativity, longevity, and ARPG perspective POE is the best current on the market.

It's strange... It's almost as if the OP took the worst things about D3 or the things that failed and wants them applied to PoE.

Blizzard gave up on an economy because they weren't talented enough to make a game that would support one. PoE has character design, and reasons to re-roll. D3 did not and does not. The mapping system is leaps and bounds better than Rifting, though there are some features of Greater Rifts that I like. Heck, the reason D3 has rifts at all is because of PoE and Torchlight.

It's also very possible to play self found in this game. I'm not sure why people think otherwise. There are many builds that are unlocked by specific uniques, but there are plenty you can make that only require rares. Trade has been less and less necessary each league.

The only thing I really agreed with was client performance. That can always be improved. Otherwise please keep this man away from PoE. He wants a D3 style game that appeals to people who want to play an hour or two a week. I love PoE because I can play 12 hours a day for a month and still have a few things to accomplish.

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Such a smart drop system would save time and effort, in addition to being a self-found boon; more players would find their own upgrades, while simultaneously finding less upgrades for other build types, so it would have the end economic result of completing several "automatic trades" without going through the bother.

Yes having something like that could work, but you also have to keep in mind that still limits the scope of what people might realistically want. Like a duelist for example might go IR and just want pure evasion gear because traditionally its easier to get a higher value evasion piece then it is an armor one. There really isn't any need for any smarter loot or making looting\self found easier in that regard.

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Regarding "verbosity" I tend to side with the OP. Yes, loot filters are awesome and everyone should use them. But they're not a default option, and increase the learning curve for new players in a very weird way. I don't think it's quite right to just say "loot filters" and have-wave off the problem.

Actually it is ok to say just use loot filters and wave off the problem, simply reducing the items that drop isn't an acceptable proposition because people that DO use loot filters will find less bases, chrome recipes, just everything.

Should GGG maybe focus on working with the community wiki and creating a starter guide with information needed to play effectively, like loot filter and stuff, yes they should.

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Alternate genders should be paid microtransactions. And expensive (after all, expensive to make). Would still be quite popular.

The issue partly here with MTX is that some people have a lot of points they don't even spend on anything, but some people here will always but the T1 or T2 supporter pack everytime it comes around, so making it an MTX isn't necessarily going to give them profits. Not only that you are talking about voice acting lines for each individual opposite sex class, but all of the bosses and NPCs that have specific verbiage as well. If GGG can make it and do think its profitable I say go for it, maybe start with just the scion only at first and see where it goes from there, but IMO its a massive undertaking and cost without anyway for GGG to be sure they will recoup the investment.

Some interesting points about Z-level, shows knowledge of UI... But generally this hasn't had a very large impact on my play. Loot filters, also, go a long way; but many novice players probably won't ever set one up.

OP doesn't seem to get that unique items are not legacy items, that they are not the best items in the game... that there is actual build diversity only when perfect rare items are generally the best items.

I'm mixed on maps. As above, maps shouldn't drop a legacy, as a legacy shouldn't exist. As maps have mods, there could be a mod "Unique boss drops 1 additional unique", or "Unique Boss drops 1-3 additional rare items", or "Unique boss drops 1 additional currency item". This could perhaps be a special slot, and when alch-ing maps perhaps you would be guaranteed to get one of these. (Normal and Blue maps might have nothing special then, but a rare map is likely to have some challenge and thus add some reward.)

As for maps at low levels, I'm mixed. This is currently end game content, as they keep adding new acts. I'm not sure I'm sold on the necessity.

On the Crap Pinata: D3 (beta) didn't have it, and they realized it was a mistake, and took corrective action. There is something to be said about sifting through the pile and pulling out a diamond or piece of gold. (Loot filters also help with this.)

I'm not for Smart Drops either. POE is very deep. My build, good or bad, would be rediculously hard for the game to predict. Maybe I'm leveling with attack skill "A" and later changing to spell "B". Maybe I'm doing an attack build but cursing with Ball Lightning. Maybe I'm casting spark out of a Voltaxic. So you can't really know too much by weapon, or skill. And don't you f-up my drops based on class, either. Just don't do it. Many players make multiple builds, and finding a great item for a build you make later is perfectly fine. If we did offer "smart drops", at a very minimum players should be able to opt out of them.

I'm not sure I agree on boss battles either. Since you currently do repeat the content, it almost makes sense that they aren't simple, and at higher difficulties you may need to be more and more mindful of the actual mechanics. But don't worry, you'll have time to learn them.

I think people would feel more accomplishment in finishing an Act, and engage more with the game if there were cut-scenes... and then perhaps players would have more interest with what the npc's say. But this has so far been a matter of cost to development, as I understand it. Small Indie project problems.


In the end, I'm addicted to the Rouge-like. The "What if make a build this way" Syndrome. As they keep adding new skills, new items, and new mechanics, I keep coming back for more.

Which is to say, many of these other things are just the sprinkles and nuts, and I come for the endless flavors.

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goetzjam wrote:

When I searched for SCT and gaming I found ScrollingCombatText, which leads to information like DPS numbers showing and stuff, no idea if that was his intention or not as it isn't an incredibly common used term or one I've seen used at all in ARPG discussions.

Well, if it is the damage numbers over mobs.... That is pretty much the worst I can think of. They are simply horrible. They clutter the screen, you cannot read them anyways, they break immersion - and no, nothing satisfying there.

As for the boss fights and the elites - what are the elites you are talking about? The Diablo fight is awesome, some other really nicely designed fights are:

- Kaom
- Shock and Horror
- Merveil
- Vaal Oversoul
- Atziri
- Pretty much all Beyond bosses
- Atziri Trio
- Fragment of Winter
- Excavation bosses
- Piety Act4 / Malformation boss (if she doesn't move to the edge)
- Forest of Flames (Volcano boss)


I also like Malachai (not the bosses before) and Izaro. The boss battles are the awesome part of battles. Not sure what you mean with elites.

In general, there is some good feedback here, but also some obvious game-dev feedback that would make the game worse if implemented. I like POE for what it is.

What is true though are certainly a few things:

1) The performance is bad
2) There could sometimes be a little more rewards
3) Going through the difficulties three times is... long. I hope Cruel will be removed eventually
4) The skill system and passive tree are awesome.


Gender barriers? Who cares. I don't play the game to be myself.

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goetzjam wrote:

Actually it is ok to say just use loot filters and wave off the problem, simply reducing the items that drop isn't an acceptable proposition because people that DO use loot filters will find less bases, chrome recipes, just everything.

Should GGG maybe focus on working with the community wiki and creating a starter guide with information needed to play effectively, like loot filter and stuff, yes they should.

So GGG shouldn't just hand-wave off the problem, they should do something about it by making loot filters more accessible to new players. Got it.