SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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goetzjam wrote:

The game is hardly balanced around them, GGG has made very little changes to mobs and mods to support the idea that you need it to do the content in the game.

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Oblitus wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

The game is hardly balanced around them, GGG has made very little changes to mobs and mods to support the idea that you need it to do the content in the game.

Thats a specific build, what the hell does that have to do with the content you are facing which you rofl stomp with 1c uniques in every slot once you get it.




Not everything in a game is suppose to be the most fun thing possible, it makes the more fun things, well more fun. You know like people crying they cant just delve constantly, when mapping mixing it up really helps.

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goetzjam wrote:

Thats a specific build, what the hell does that have to do with the content you are facing which you rofl stomp with 1c uniques in every slot once you get it.

Just an example. A lot of newly overhauled ascendancies have gem-specific nodes, and without them, the gem just doesn't work.

The traps in Labs have a very negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. Not speaking as someone who runs labs for gear very often, just for getting the points. This problem would be completely corrected if a death did not result in having to re-do the entire lab run. There's no other way to say it, it just isn't fun.

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Oblitus wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Thats a specific build, what the hell does that have to do with the content you are facing which you rofl stomp with 1c uniques in every slot once you get it.

Just an example. A lot of newly overhauled ascendancies have gem-specific nodes, and without them, the gem just doesn't work.

I find that simply untrue.

Will something else be as optimal without those specific nodes, probably not but they might offer you something else as a result.

Every single non support build can solo all of the labs with proper play so I don't really see how the lab being the challenge to get the points is a problem in that regard.


Hell back in the day we used to play leveling specs and then completely change our builds around in order to do our endgame setups. The game has taken a step away from that (probably a good thing) but the fact still remains that as a result character power is higher then the content they need to do.


>The traps in Labs have a very negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. Not speaking as someone who runs labs for gear very often, just for getting the points. This problem would be completely corrected if a death did not result in having to re-do the entire lab run. There's no other way to say it, it just isn't fun.


You know what else requires you to restart if you die? Delves, including losing out on specific rooms full of good loot (if you die in them)

You cant portal out of the delve either. Damage over time elements as well.

Hell delves are basically the lab just turned into a little puzzle where you pick and choose where to go. Would love to hear someone try to counter that point.


As for enjoyment, you dont have to enjoy everything in a game for it to be fine the way it is. Overcoming the lab challenge and not dying means that should feel more rewarding when you finally finish it.

Personally I think masters are mostly ok, but love the idea of improving them, just like GGG improved the labs. Everyone doesnt enjoy masters but they are powerful in conjunction with other crafting methods.

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goetzjam wrote:

Hell back in the day we used to play leveling specs and then completely change our builds around in order to do our endgame setups. The game has taken a step away from that (probably a good thing) but the fact still remains that as a result character power is higher then the content they need to do.

God I hated that. I used to specifically avoid builds that required respecc'ing for end game, which meant most of the builds I played were really squishy leveling.

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goetzjam wrote:

You know what else requires you to restart if you die? Delves, including losing out on specific rooms full of good loot (if you die in them)

You cant portal out of the delve either. Damage over time elements as well.

Hell delves are basically the lab just turned into a little puzzle where you pick and choose where to go. Would love to hear someone try to counter that point.

I'll take that challenge. The difference is that delves are MUCH shorter and are generally MUCH MORE FUN. Failing something fun that took 30 seconds is much less of a sinking feeling than dying 20 minutes into a shitty activity (uber lab run) and having to do the entire 20 minute shitty activity over again.

How's that for a counterpoint? Go ahead, nit pick it to death. I know you will. :)

746 pages so far. tldr?

fuck lab.

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triggeredfatfeminist wrote:

746 pages so far. tldr?

fuck lab.

Short and sweet, I assume that this means you disapprove of the lab. It really is abhorrent content that besmirches GGG's otherwise good name.

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Shloppy wrote:

The traps in Labs have a very negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. Not speaking as someone who runs labs for gear very often, just for getting the points. This problem would be completely corrected if a death did not result in having to re-do the entire lab run. There's no other way to say it, it just isn't fun.

I admit that once I thought of trying to get a good helmet enchantment for my build. After 2 runs, I decided the drudgery was not worth it.

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Phaeded wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Hell back in the day we used to play leveling specs and then completely change our builds around in order to do our endgame setups. The game has taken a step away from that (probably a good thing) but the fact still remains that as a result character power is higher then the content they need to do.

God I hated that. I used to specifically avoid builds that required respecc'ing for end game, which meant most of the builds I played were really squishy leveling.

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goetzjam wrote:

You know what else requires you to restart if you die? Delves, including losing out on specific rooms full of good loot (if you die in them)

You cant portal out of the delve either. Damage over time elements as well.

Hell delves are basically the lab just turned into a little puzzle where you pick and choose where to go. Would love to hear someone try to counter that point.

I'll take that challenge. The difference is that delves are MUCH shorter and are generally MUCH MORE FUN. Failing something fun that took 30 seconds is much less of a sinking feeling than dying 20 minutes into a shitty activity (uber lab run) and having to do the entire 20 minute shitty activity over again.

How's that for a counterpoint? Go ahead, nit pick it to death. I know you will. :)

You can't use subjective points to counter his argument. Fun is different for everyone. If I find the lab to be fun, then Your argument collapses. You don't like the lab, I don't like act 4/8. Let me skip what I don't like, and don't find fun, but still give me the rewards......Yea...I don't think that is happening.

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Xtorma wrote:

You can't use subjective points to counter his argument. Fun is different for everyone. If I find the lab to be fun, then Your argument collapses. You don't like the lab, I don't like act 4/8. Let me skip what I don't like, and don't find fun, but still give me the rewards......Yea...I don't think that is happening.

Disagree, but even if you take out the FUN the rest of my point stands on it's own. Delves are short failures. Lab is a long failure. One certainly is less of a time impact than the other. That is the counterpoint.