SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Pyrokar wrote:

This is pretty funny.
Lab defender argument #1:
Games are basically light that come out of a computer screen, therefore all games are the same.

Lab defender argument #2:
If we change this then we must change all the things that have been requested so far.

:D

Oh boy, how exciting!

Which Lab Defender am I? Do we get our own clubhouse? Is this kind of organisation tax exempt? Can we have spike and dart traps in our lobby? A fountain with a huge statue of Izaro in the middle... I've got to start working on the blueprints! :D

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

What?

Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not surprised. But believe it or not, it makes as much sense as you telling Xtorma that he/she is not providing feedback on the Lab, when he/she clearly is.

It's a simple comparison of time spent doing Act 4 or 8 or brushing your teeth vs doing the Lab, it doesn't matter what the comparison is with, it's relevant to the Lab as that is what it is being compared with.

You understand now?

No, I don't understand. Pyrokar might be saying that he's saying that since GGG hasn't fixed act 4 and act 8 then they can't fix lab? That doesn't make anymore sense to me than your theory that Xtorma was saying we can't give feedback and suggestions on lab because it takes less time to do than brushing teeth or doing act 4 and act 8.

Xtorma said he didn't like doing act 4 or act 8. so what? This thread is not about doing act 4 or act 8. Or is he saying he has to do act 4 and act 8 so we have to do lab? If that is what he was trying to say then that is ridiculously irrelevant, I find it hard to believe he would mean that. How does that make any sense? We are giving feedback that we don't like lab. If he wants to give feedback that he doesn't like act 4 and act 8 then he should do it in a different thread.

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Turtledove wrote:

No, I don't understand. Pyrokar might be saying that he's saying that since GGG hasn't fixed act 4 and act 8 then they can't fix lab? That doesn't make anymore sense to me than your theory that Xtorma was saying we can't give feedback and suggestions on lab because it takes less time to do than brushing teeth or doing act 4 and act 8.

Xtorma said he didn't like doing act 4 or act 8. so what? This thread is not about doing act 4 or act 8. Or is he saying he has to do act 4 and act 8 so we have to do lab? If that is what he was trying to say then that is ridiculously irrelevant, I find it hard to believe he would mean that. How does that make any sense? We are giving feedback that we don't like lab. If he wants to give feedback that he doesn't like act 4 and act 8 then he should do it in a different thread.

Xtorma is saying that just because the Lab takes time to complete, doesn't mean it is therefor bad or that it needs to be removed. Acts take time too and he doesn't like doing them either, like you don't like doing Lab, and yet he doesn't want the acts removed either. He acknowledges that games are about overcoming hurdles and some of those aren't MEANT to be fun, they are just there to stop you from burning yourself out quickly and leaving out of boredom.

I haven't followed the entire conversation, luckily, but it's perfectly logical to me and 100% on topic.

You don't have to be a masochist to seek challenges that aren't necessarily fun in games. Look at the massive popularity of the Dark Souls franchise for example. That game doesn't even hide the fact it's trying to fuck with you, and people love it still.

The amount of this in PoE is extremely minimal and what little challenge we have left, we need to defend before this turns into Path of Casuals even more than it already has over the years.

Unfortunately for you, that means defending it from people like you. Don't like it? Don't like you either, but I'll respect your view all the same, like I hope you will with ours.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

No, I don't understand. Pyrokar might be saying that he's saying that since GGG hasn't fixed act 4 and act 8 then they can't fix lab? That doesn't make anymore sense to me than your theory that Xtorma was saying we can't give feedback and suggestions on lab because it takes less time to do than brushing teeth or doing act 4 and act 8.

Xtorma said he didn't like doing act 4 or act 8. so what? This thread is not about doing act 4 or act 8. Or is he saying he has to do act 4 and act 8 so we have to do lab? If that is what he was trying to say then that is ridiculously irrelevant, I find it hard to believe he would mean that. How does that make any sense? We are giving feedback that we don't like lab. If he wants to give feedback that he doesn't like act 4 and act 8 then he should do it in a different thread.

Xtorma is saying that just because the Lab takes time to complete, doesn't mean it is therefor bad or that it needs to be removed. Acts take time too and he doesn't like doing them either, like you don't like doing Lab, and yet he doesn't want them removed either.

I haven't followed the entire conversation, luckily, but it's perfectly logical to me and 100% on topic.

Well if lab took zero time then there wouldn't be anything to complain about. The problem with lab is that it is not fun and this not fun time is more than zero time. The core of the complaint is that lab is a different kind of game play from the rest of PoE and this different kind of game play is not fun for some. The OP does not advocate removing lab. There are players that like doing it. I don't remember anyone recently making an argument that it be removed, just make the ascendancy points available elsewhere.

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Turtledove wrote:

Well if lab took zero time then there wouldn't be anything to complain about. The problem with lab is that it is not fun and this not fun time is more than zero time. The core of the complaint is that lab is a different kind of game play from the rest of PoE and this different kind of game play is not fun for some. The OP does not advocate removing lab. There are players that like doing it. I don't remember anyone recently making an argument that it be removed, just make the ascendancy points available elsewhere.

Yes, but then what is the reason left to run the Lab? Enchants only? The name of the damn place is the Labyrinth of Ascendancy, not Enchants. The true reward for doing the Lab the first 4 times are the Ascendancy classes and their passive nodes. The rewards for consecutive runs are the enchants and drops.

It's designed in such a way that you control the amount of challenge you put into the boss fights, where little challenge offers little keys, and more challenge offers more keys at the end. If the challenge is too much for you, do a 1 key run and just finish it for your point and never do it again.

Lab is different from what the game offered before it came out, yes, but it is now a core part of the game, so that argument no longer stands. Count your lucky stars that they haven't implemented these traps into more content since Lab's release, I would say.

Here is a big part of lab threads, re-written for delve.

OP in feedback forum making a post: I think we should change delve to make sulphite collection less boring and tedious.

Response: But, they haven't fixed issue 6,493 yet, and I care about that more, so you shouldn't be posting about delve.

OP: Maybe you should make your own thread.

Response: You just need to "git gud" to in your sulphite collection efforts.

OP: What part of "boring and tedious" is unclear to you? Also, collecting sulphite means clicking on something. It's not difficult.

Response: Sulphite collection is a minor percentage of game time, so stop being a whiner.

OP: Is it really your place to decide when people are behaving appropriately in the feedback forum? Is that not up to GGG, instead of you?

Response: I don't like section "Z" of the game and I don't post negative feedback, so you shouldn't do that about delve.

OP: What you choose to do or not do is up to you. But, who are you to try to force your beliefs on others?

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Xavathos wrote:

Lab is different from what the game offered before it came out, yes, but it is now a core part of the game, so that argument no longer stands. Count your lucky stars that they haven't implemented these traps into more content since Lab's release, I would say.

Nope, GGG should count their own lucky stars for not spreading this horrible content all over. They would have lost even more players to it if they had.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Lab is different from what the game offered before it came out, yes, but it is now a core part of the game, so that argument no longer stands. Count your lucky stars that they haven't implemented these traps into more content since Lab's release, I would say.

Nope, GGG should count their own lucky stars for not spreading this horrible content all over. They would have lost even more players to it if they had.

Maybe they should have then, but that's another discussion I'm not going into with you. :)