SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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IQof3 wrote:

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Goremise wrote:

adding my voice here!

Reworked Lab! yes!

Points able to be gained elsewhere then that stupid place? Yes please!

This is only my third league and I already feel the strain of running that place. Even when I play a spec that can complete it super fast and one shot Izaro, I still don't run it.

Tried playing a tanky spec, and I see there is many Izaro phases were you have to avoid like the plague.

Such a bad place and bad game design.

Totally agree! I dread this damn place every league. Takes the fun right out of the game and add a bad league to that makes it even less enjoyable.

IQof3, thank you for voicing your opinion on the stupid labyrinth that represents bad game design because it is not fun. I've added your name to the list of accounts that have voiced a similar opinion now at 985 names long. Over 370 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 980 posters in support

A possible new alternative added in the Alternative Ascension Methods spoiler in OP, number XVI

Ascendancy points via beastcrafting. Argus is made a beast and serves as the main component his level determines the difficulty of the lab points you take (normal/cruel/merci/uber). The rest of the ingredients are the lab only creatures considered animals/beasts, who can be normal/magic/rare in nature with or without beast mods on them required. Each beastcrafting gives 1 ascendancy point, 2 fights for each difficulty in other words or 8 sets of ingredients

Do fights get rewarded. Simple and plain it will help immensely those who despise lab's alienating gameplay and in the progress make those lab farmers even more rich, win-win situation. It will make also normal/cruel/merci labs more meaningful to farm and all labs more rewarding to fully explore. The 8 times you got to do the fights in the arena are grindy enough and merci/uber argus plus some mobs in that small arena can be quite lethal too. Only negative is that beastcrafting might not be planned to be kept in the core game.

I still shocked this has not bin done yet.

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Madtank wrote:

I still shocked this has not bin done yet.

They were too busy making the beastiary league.

Labyrinth is bad content. The ideas in the opening post (OP) propose ways to fix this bad content or to make it optional. I like those ideas.

GGG has made labyrinth less loathsome for the first two labs. PoE has gotten faster and characters are faster and tougher than a few releases ago. If GGG continues to nibble away on the labyrinth loathsomeness here's the list in my priority order.

1. Some kind of checkpoint/portal/waypoint capability. I like suggestion 4 in the OP as a good example.
2. RNG to get 6 endgame trials is too severe. Give a chance to a different trial if the first trial chosen by the code has already been completed. Alternatively, just always make sure that the first six trials are all unique.
3. Lore for four labyrinths is ridiculously brain dead stupid. #@%& *@#! GGG should apologize to everyone entering Labyrinth for their stupidity.

I have no problem with the Lab's difficulty but I still hate it at this point. Thanks to power creep its much easier now but no matter how easy it is, it has no place in the game.

Considering the Nerf rate on map drops, it remains way too good loot for the effort though considering I end up having to farm yellow boring maps for shit loot or do the Lab which isn't fun.

I chalk it up to a bad league because I don't like either end game at this point. Still it doesn't bring the loathing it once did. It just does not feel good, then again trapping monsters in a arpg feels just as bad.

I do have to say having wacky leagues like bestiality league make Lab feel like the new normal. I just am not loving the new normal.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

I have no problem with the Lab's difficulty but I still hate it at this point. Thanks to power creep its much easier now but no matter how easy it is, it has no place in the game.

Considering the Nerf rate on map drops, it remains way too good loot for the effort though considering I end up having to farm yellow boring maps for shit loot or do the Lab which isn't fun.

I chalk it up to a bad league because I don't like either end game at this point. Still it doesn't bring the loathing it once did. It just does not feel good, then again trapping monsters in a arpg feels just as bad.

I do have to say having wacky leagues like bestiality league make Lab feel like the new normal. I just am not loving the new normal.

Here's a clarification of what was meant by my sentence "PoE has gotten faster and characters are faster and tougher than a few releases ago." I was not trying to say that labyrinth was loathsome because it was difficult. I was thinking about my current character. It uses a Thief's Torment ring and does not use a life flask. It would be best to use a life flask in lab with this character. I have not done that though. The hassle of going to my stash when I found a trial is instead just ignored. I just run the trial without a life flask. I even ran the endgame lab without a life flask. The character is just very fast and the rare occasion that I get stuck in a trap gauntlet, I just shoot a sentinel trap or wait around for life regen and mana regen, if there's no sentinel trap to shoot. A few releases ago this would have been a less realistic option, I think?

The introduction of a time travel mechanic with Incursion opens the door to a host of possible alternatives for ascension.

A couple of them are being discussed in this thread:



... but there are plenty of ways to go about this.

The simplest way to go about this seems likely to involve going back in time to before the existence of Labyrinth so that the journey to the final battle and any associated Izaro fights can be balanced around their intrinsic difficulty as ARPG fights. With traps removed from the equation, hopefully the difficulty of the fights themselves could be raised to the point where they're challenging and actually interesting.

This would be a welcome change to tying difficulty to running trap gauntlets and to watching where your character stands for the final Izaro fight (in the current game).

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Madtank wrote:

I still shocked this has not bin done yet.

"bin done" is exactly the right way to say it.

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Turtledove wrote:

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IQof3 wrote:

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Goremise wrote:

adding my voice here!

Reworked Lab! yes!

Points able to be gained elsewhere then that stupid place? Yes please!

This is only my third league and I already feel the strain of running that place. Even when I play a spec that can complete it super fast and one shot Izaro, I still don't run it.

Tried playing a tanky spec, and I see there is many Izaro phases were you have to avoid like the plague.

Such a bad place and bad game design.

Totally agree! I dread this damn place every league. Takes the fun right out of the game and add a bad league to that makes it even less enjoyable.

IQof3, thank you for voicing your opinion on the stupid labyrinth that represents bad game design because it is not fun. I've added your name to the list of accounts that have voiced a similar opinion now at 985 names long. Over 370 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 980 posters in support

You're still throwing numbers around like that? Meaningless. Here's why:

1. This thread is years old, literally. What makes you think anything on the first 100s of pages of this thread is still relevant today? Don't kid yourself.

2. These forums are for discussing feedback and suggestions. In a discussion, people often change their mind when presented with well constructed and formulated feedback and opinions from different points of view. All you do is put down a list of people who once said something negative regarding the Lab and that is set in stone. Well, you're wrong.

3. We all know (and for those who do not, here you go) that you include people who simply said "Lab sucks" in any thread anywhere, just to make the numbers seem larger than they are. "Lab sucks" is not feedback, it's an outburst from someone who died taking a risk he shouldn't have taken. People get pissed off at games ALL the time. That does not make it a bad game or bad design. Ever watched Dark Souls streams? You'll see what I mean.

4. Even with the above facts being calculated in when clearly they shouldn't be, (you can't realistically put a number on anything for longer than a day) the numbers are so small that it's more likely to show GGG to NOT change the Lab than to actually change it. If changing the Lab will make 980 people happy and potentially MILLIONS unhappy, what do you think they'll do? Even if the numbers were less skewed, say 1000 vs 20000, the choice is still easy. Numbers don't lie, and yours are speaking against you.


I have utmost respect for you and a few others who have showed their unwavering disgust of this specific bit of content, but you're fighting a lost cause. It's a mental trap, you see. Like gambling, you become more and more invested, so you force yourself to keep playing in order not to waste your investment. It's hard to break that wall, I know, but keep in mind; the house always wins.