SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

"

raics wrote:

"

EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

I'm not certain what you mean. Notes for GGG, or notes for ...?

For lab opposition corps, of course, all this time we thought you should be more articulated with your feedback to get results and turns out it's actually less. Who would've thunk.

I think you meant "you should be more articulate", unless I'm missing something. I think that ease of addressing concerns is a big part of whether GGG decides to respond or not, probably a much bigger factor than the degree to which concerns are clearly articulated.

It would seem that conditions under which something gets netted is not particularly difficult from a tech or resource perspective. In contrast, labyrinth was a big content update and providing an alternative for ascendancy would be pretty resource-intensive. Even if some at GGG empathize with those who dislike or hate lab there's still the challenge of fitting that into the agenda somehow. Plus, given the centrality of prestige class skills to character definition and progression, they'd want to be very careful to craft an alternative was well received (and not just another source of frustration and disappointment).

Yes, exactly what I meant, it has to be feasible and you need a lot of people shouting. Turns out it doesn't really matter what, a lot like the magic system in Belgariad, you need a word to focus the power and it can be any word so the man takes it literally and runs around yelling 'hop' and 'door'.

This poll is pretty interesting, by the outrage on forum and reddit you'd think the thing is beyond saving but the poll says a full half of the playerbase is fine with the way nets are working and another quarter would want a failsafe just in case, with just the remaining quarter aiming to sideswipe the whole process. I suppose it shows how loud a minority can be.

"

raics wrote:

This poll is pretty interesting, by the outrage on forum and reddit you'd think the thing is beyond saving but the poll says a full half of the playerbase is fine with the way nets are working now, after the update and another quarter would want a failsafe just in case, with just the remaining quarter aiming to sideswipe the whole process. I suppose it shows how loud a minority can be.

Bolded part added by me.

My point being, that is the only data you have available, yet you are using that data to draw conclusions about noise made before the net changes. The respective numbers are almost certainly wildly different.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

My point being, that is the only data you have available, yet you are using that data to draw conclusions about noise made before the net changes. The respective numbers are almost certainly wildly different.

Of course, that's the whole point, among the satisfied 50% we have those that didn't like the initial execution which got improved upon. Hell, we got even those that didn't like the entire concept but it grew on them after they played a bit, saw it isn't a tragedy if a beast or two gets away and that some recipes are pretty nifty.

We can see it after major mechanic changes too, like the AoE scaling rework, the outrage is initially high and people get used to it gradually even if the situation doesn't really get improved over time as was the case there. We're naturally resistant to change and enjoy the comforts of the zone, it has to be executed damn near perfectly if you don't want to see the community digging their heels in, and GGG rarely enough nails it on the first swing.

I was referencing this...

"

raics wrote:

This poll is pretty interesting, by the outrage on forum and reddit you'd think the thing is beyond saving but the poll says a full half of the playerbase is fine with the way nets are working and another quarter would want a failsafe just in case, with just the remaining quarter aiming to sideswipe the whole process. I suppose it shows how loud a minority can be.

(bolding added by me)

...in which you imply that the outrage expressed on the forum and reddit is belied by the poll results, which in turn "shows how loud a minority can be."

Your argument as expressed there doesn't add up, because the outrage you reference primarily came before the initial net changes, and the level of satisfaction as reflected by the poll results came after. The degree to which they conflict says nothing about the relationship between apparent satisfaction and measured satisfaction, because they are unrelated pieces of data.

Edit: I am wrong. People are still QQing even now.

In any case, I happen to think you are correct that a minority can be very loud, but whether that minority reflects the greater trend of opinion and/or the direction the game out to take (two distinct things, actually) is a different question. (Also a much more interesting question.)

Majority / minority matters less than the intensity of the response.

Whether GGG disappoints and angers 45% or 55% of their playerbase with a certain decision doesn't really matter at the end of the day. If it's a big enough issue to players the damage to GGG ends up being huge either way.

adding my voice here!

Reworked Lab! yes!

Points able to be gained elsewhere then that stupid place? Yes please!

This is only my third league and I already feel the strain of running that place. Even when I play a spec that can complete it super fast and one shot Izaro, I still don't run it.

Tried playing a tanky spec, and I see there is many Izaro phases were you have to avoid like the plague.

Such a bad place and bad game design.

I don't get it.

I started about midway through abyss. I didn't resort to global channels or grouping, and I was still able to complete every single lab using only using wikis and such for help when I'd have trouble.

Before uber labs, I didn't even bother learning about the different nuances in the trial. Uber gave me pause, and a bit of frustration - so I finally read more about how the trial works.


With what I had read of people complaining on-line, I did not plan on getting my uber lab points. I was still learning and if these vets had so much trouble, than it was unlikely I'd ever complete it.

Then I did.

So now, at this point, I see people demanding to earn points outside of the trial as self-entitled folk who think these points will magically make them better players. The reality is if you can't get through the trials, you're still gonna struggle against anything that can hit hard enough to actually kill you.

I can understand hardcore players feeling a bit restricted, as I've had at least one death that was from desync (and got me to swap back to lockstep) and the risk of death can be dramatically higher in the higher trials - but if you think you're skilled enough for hardcore and trust your internet connectivity that much - there's no issue there anyway.

"

Goremise wrote:

adding my voice here!

Reworked Lab! yes!

Points able to be gained elsewhere then that stupid place? Yes please!

This is only my third league and I already feel the strain of running that place. Even when I play a spec that can complete it super fast and one shot Izaro, I still don't run it.

Tried playing a tanky spec, and I see there is many Izaro phases were you have to avoid like the plague.

Such a bad place and bad game design.

Totally agree! I dread this damn place every league. Takes the fun right out of the game and add a bad league to that makes it even less enjoyable.

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

I don't get it.

Yea, you don't. I mean look at this random guy. He is lvl 100 in hardcore. He obviously has no trouble surviving or getting his ascendancies. Why does he not like lab?

Some people would go "Hmmm maybe i should read into this further". Others would go "HAh you just want stuff for free and i am better than you!"

And then the others go "You are just a minority". Well as it turns out, being smart makes you also a minority. Coincidence? Probably yes, but in this case probably no.