SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Turtledove wrote:

I'll just close this post with one of those badly written sentences here on the forum that you refer to. Labyrinth is loathsome piece of shit content that besmirches and insults GGG's good name.

I believe there's a few other sources of that going around here and there as well... unfortunately. It's alright though, you don't notice any of that while blissfully running Lab.

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Thejunior wrote:

I would be so happy if I never had to ever step into the labyrinth ever again. It's just not in the theme of the game and it's always tedious, forced content that reduces my willingness to try new builds. I hate the lab with passion. I don't care how good uber lab drops are. I Don't ever want to step into the lab. Ever.

Then don't? The only one who could possibly force you to do Lab, is you. And if you want to reap the rewards, then you need to be up to the challenge. I really don't understand why this is such a tricky concept to grasp for some.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Thejunior wrote:

I would be so happy if I never had to ever step into the labyrinth ever again. It's just not in the theme of the game and it's always tedious, forced content that reduces my willingness to try new builds. I hate the lab with passion. I don't care how good uber lab drops are. I Don't ever want to step into the lab. Ever.

Then don't? The only one who could possibly force you to do Lab, is you. And if you want to reap the rewards, then you need to be up to the challenge. I really don't understand why this is such a tricky concept to grasp for some.

By the same logic, no one stopping anyone from NOT playing PoE. No play PoE, no MTX money for GGG, that's all.

As players, we have the right to express what we like or dislike, & what we wish to see added or removed. It is for GGG to make their own decisions, base on The feedbacks.

I don't dislike the lab as much as others. I even farm the uberlab sometimes. But at the end of the day, the lab is widely dislike, in fact the change to lab in 3.0 is due mostly to the dislike. But it doesn't solve core problems for many people.

It's not about you, me or any individual, but if the mass collective of player dislike something, i am all for the change.

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KiadawP wrote:

But at the end of the day, the lab is widely dislike, in fact the change to lab in 3.0 is due mostly to the dislike.

Sure, it's disliked plenty, but how many people truly like league challenges? Some can be fun, but most are plain tedious and annoying, but, if you want free MTX you have to complete them, so we do. That's the way games like this work, if you want this - do that, it's impossible for everything to be liked so I don't think they're bothered by it too much as long as it isn't causing a mass exodus, which is not the case.

What they do care about, however, is content difficulty. And the first lab could probably be a bit hard for a newcomer so it made a poor introduction to the system and they changed it, the second one just followed the curve. If dislike was their number one concern, they would have trimmed all of them.

Just think of it, some may like the lab but I practically never heard of anyone liking trials, and they're still around.

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raics wrote:

Sure, it's disliked plenty, but how many people truly like league challenges? Some can be fun, but most are plain tedious and annoying, but, if you want free MTX you have to complete them, so we do.

You can't compare the pure cosmetic effects to the vital part of the character progression.
In the same manner, I will ask 'Why we can't buy full leveled toons in MTX shop?" After all, this is the same relation: pay for something, or grind to get it for free

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Nishrek wrote:

You can't compare the pure cosmetic effects to the vital part of the character progression.
In the same manner, I will ask 'Why we can't buy full leveled toons in MTX shop?" After all, this is the same relation: pay for something, or grind to get it for free

On the base level it's the same thing - 'I want this'.

It's probably some kind of reverse psychology, devs are supposed to make something you need less harder to acquire. Well, they're doing a good job if that's so, I'd run ten chars through lab sooner than reload ruined square 150 times again for the vaal boss challenge. At least lab doesn't have quite the same level of rng in play, good luck with stuff like echoing shrine or perandus trove.

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raics wrote:

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Nishrek wrote:

You can't compare the pure cosmetic effects to the vital part of the character progression.
In the same manner, I will ask 'Why we can't buy full leveled toons in MTX shop?" After all, this is the same relation: pay for something, or grind to get it for free

On the base level it's the same thing - 'I want this'.

It's probably some kind of reverse psychology, devs are supposed to make something you need less harder to acquire. Well, they're doing a good job if that's so, I'd run ten chars through lab sooner than reload ruined square 150 times again for the vaal boss challenge. At least lab doesn't have quite the same level of rng in play, good luck with stuff like echoing shrine or perandus trove.

Nishrek is right.

Challenges that annoy many players lead to many players giving up on said annoying challenges. Annoying gameplay does "% damage" to the growth rate of a game by increasing the amount of negative chatter associated with it (reduces the intake of new players, makes them leave faster when they do show up), and does "% damage" to the lifespan of a game by decreasing player retention (ie: by shortening the time to burnout and exit by many players).

Multiple streamers have publicly laid into GGG over lab, which isn't good for POE's marketing or GGG's reputation. There's a recent 3.0 game review that specifically mentions lab as "bad design", and there's been a continuous stream of dislike and hate in the forums since its release. You'd need some pretty strongly tinted rose colored glasses to believe there are no negative effects on POE from these things.

In the broader gaming community, I doubt the issue of some challenges being annoying has anywhere near the profile of the widespread dislike and hate for lab.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Challenges that annoy many players lead to many players giving up on said annoying challenges. Annoying gameplay does "% damage" to the growth rate of a game by increasing the amount of negative chatter associated with it (reduces the intake of new players, makes them leave faster when they do show up), and does "% damage" to the lifespan of a game by decreasing player retention (ie: by shortening the time to burnout and exit by many players).

So, you're saying PoE would have better retention if it went my little pony? Well we obviously can't have that, linking and coloring sockets is annoying, stacking life and maxing reses is hardly fun either, filling out atlas all over again is tedious, relevelling masters every time is boring and buying a lot of items (like quality gems when starting a new char) is a goddamn chore. The game is pretty much fueled by tedium as most online games are, you can't ask them to stop just like that.

Who knows, it's hard to say how much damage is something really doing and how much of it is just being a focal point for general dissatisfaction or pure meme. How much damage do you think performance problems did in 3.0? And that shit does raw damage, non-elemental.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I'll just close this post with one of those badly written sentences here on the forum that you refer to. Labyrinth is loathsome piece of shit content that besmirches and insults GGG's good name.

I believe there's a few other sources of that going around here and there as well... unfortunately. It's alright though, you don't notice any of that while blissfully running Lab.

When I stopped playing PoE for those months, I had forgotten how loathsome the labyrinth content was. I took my character through the first three labyrinths and was on a blissful high from how much I appreciated GGG reducing the loathsome content. I decided that this character I would do all the map trials I found. After thirteen trials the blissful high was definitely running thin but I completed the 6 trial requirement. Then I went into the last labyrinth the other day and got interrupted and had to exit out. Now that was irritating but I had expected to have to pay 4 offerings per attempt and since it really only cost one I figured I had way more offerings than I'd ever use. Dying to Izaro was not really the problem to me. The Izaro and Argus fights are the fun part of labyrinth. The rest is the loathsome piece of shit content. Having to repeat the loathsome content just tarnishes the whole experience, even the otherwise fun part.

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raics wrote:

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Nishrek wrote:

You can't compare the pure cosmetic effects to the vital part of the character progression.
In the same manner, I will ask 'Why we can't buy full leveled toons in MTX shop?" After all, this is the same relation: pay for something, or grind to get it for free

On the base level it's the same thing - 'I want this'.

You are over simplify & present what people regard as false equalivance. Not to mention you also making a speculative claim.

Getting a hand sprained, & a broken wrist are both hand injury, but the latter is far more serious!

When you make comparsion, severity & fluquency are important. When you simplify comparion to yes/no, all/none, this is regarded as strawman.

The dislike for lab is disportionally higher than challenges, evidenced by the # of thraeds & pages in the thread of these 2.