SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Nishrek wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Mario didn't have freaking ascendancy points which made him twice as strong, fast or made him shoot feathers out of his bum which returned after hitting targets when he completed a map.

No. He had a big mushroom which had done that for him. The mushroom appeared after jumping over/under specific tiles on a platform (sounds familiar?)

Yes, it does. From a game called Mario Bros on Nintendo entertainment systems.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

Maybe one day we will get even excited when entering the lab who knows!

Maybe one day, when you take off your 90s nostalgia sunglasses and see it for what it really is, completely and utterly different and nowhere even near comparable.

It's like you're comparing a bicycle to an airplane, because they both have wheels. Just because they have similarities doesn't mean they're a clone of each other or that they are meant to do the same things.

Mario didn't have freaking ascendancy points which made him twice as strong, fast or made him shoot feathers out of his bum which returned after hitting targets when he completed a map.

Prince of Persia didn't have enchants for his gear at the end of a level.

Frogger didn't have... anything Path of Exile has, except a frog. Such similar, many wow.

The GAME PLAY of trap gauntlets are similar to the GAME PLAY of those other mentioned games. That doesn't mean that those other aspects of the game are the same. The GAME PLAY and the game are two different things.

So you're saying Mario, Prince of Persia and Frogger were ARPGs? Haha, oh TD, please. Not even remotely.

Going back to my bicycle and airplane example. You're saying they're similar, because they both have wheels rolling on a road. I say they're not, because they have very different reasons for doing so and can't be compared. Apples and oranges.

If you allow comparisons like yours, we could say that anything we "jump" over (which isn't a jump, btw) in PoE makes PoE a platformer, e.g. gaps in a map, mobs, boss projectiles, totems, mines etc.

What makes a trap in the Labyrinth so special that it alone brands an entire gameplay of PoE a clone of a 90s platformer, despite everything else it represents, when you've clearly already been "jumping" over stuff since day 1 of the game? If anything, traps are easier to "jump" over, because they're not moving and can't be buffed to high heaven by RNG mods.

I still, after all these pages, do not see the problem here. I really understand where the "get good" statements at people who claim the traps are BS come from. PoE has many BS mechanics, traps ain't one of them, so if you're having issues with them... 1+1=?

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Maybe one day, when you take off your 90s nostalgia sunglasses and see it for what it really is, completely and utterly different and nowhere even near comparable.

It's like you're comparing a bicycle to an airplane, because they both have wheels. Just because they have similarities doesn't mean they're a clone of each other or that they are meant to do the same things.

Mario didn't have freaking ascendancy points which made him twice as strong, fast or made him shoot feathers out of his bum which returned after hitting targets when he completed a map.

Prince of Persia didn't have enchants for his gear at the end of a level.

Frogger didn't have... anything Path of Exile has, except a frog. Such similar, many wow.

The GAME PLAY of trap gauntlets are similar to the GAME PLAY of those other mentioned games. That doesn't mean that those other aspects of the game are the same. The GAME PLAY and the game are two different things.

So you're saying Mario, Prince of Persia and Frogger were ARPGs? Haha, oh TD, please. Not even remotely.

I'm absolutely not saying that. The GAME PLAY and the game are two different things. The GAME PLAY of trap gauntlets are similar to the GAME PLAY of those other mentioned games. Game play is the action of playing the game, how it plays. The act of playing the game. That is different from the game itself.

You know, all this wouldn't be so amusing if PoE didn't borrow from more games than it doesn't. That's certainly no news and you can't really fault devs for finding inspiration in other games or even genres. The way I see it, saying 'you implemented frogger elements badly, this and this doesn't work well' is a lot more fair than ridiculing them 'you implemented stuff from frogger'. Of course they should, I don't want them to stop doing that, whenever they spot something in other games that might work in PoE I want them to give it a shot.

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raics wrote:

You know, all this wouldn't be so amusing if PoE didn't borrow from more games than it doesn't. That's certainly no news and you can't really fault devs for finding inspiration in other games or even genres. The way I see it, saying 'you implemented frogger elements badly, this and this doesn't work well' is a lot more fair than ridiculing them 'you implemented stuff from frogger'. Of course they should, I don't want them to stop doing that, whenever they spot something in other games that might work in PoE I want them to give it a shot.

Exactly. I salute them for trying something new with the Labyrinth. I hope they do it again in the future. It takes guts to step outside the comfort zone and try something that yields uncertain results. But it's how innovation works. If you just want to make money, do it like EA and Activision do it. Shell out copy after copy of your own game, slap a new number on it, hype it up like it's the next best thing after sliced bread and make a fortune on the gullible souls that gamers are nowadays.

Grinding Gear doesn't do that at all. Path of Exile is a passion project still after all these years and it's a gem of a game. I want them to continue this way, because they're one of the very few developers left now that seem to have their hearts in the right place in terms of development, support and communication. I'll keep supporting them, because I want this honest, fair formula to be a success. To prove that you don't have to sell out and go easy mode to be successful.

Path of Exile, for me, represents exactly that. Honest, hard work to reap the benefits and the Lab is no exception in that. Yes, it's hard on some builds, yes, it's different, yes it can easily kill you and yes, you have to start over. PoE is one big Labyrinth that resets every few months, with new "traps" in the way of league specific mechanics to try to kill your builds before you reach the 40/40 goal. SSF was the best addition lately. I just wish I had to time to do it.

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raics wrote:

You know, all this wouldn't be so amusing if PoE didn't borrow from more games than it doesn't. That's certainly no news and you can't really fault devs for finding inspiration in other games or even genres. The way I see it, saying 'you implemented frogger elements badly, this and this doesn't work well' is a lot more fair than ridiculing them 'you implemented stuff from frogger'. Of course they should, I don't want them to stop doing that, whenever they spot something in other games that might work in PoE I want them to give it a shot.

I agree. In my first post about labyrinth, I said the same thing, IIRC. What I also said though was that such boring tedious content should not have been used to gate the post powerful character buffs in the game. It should have instead been done as optional content.

You know, if we take traps in PoE apart, what are they anyway?

- Positional or linearly-moving elements that do damage continuously of after a visual or sound cue so they have to be avoided. Great. We have shitton of that in game.
- Some of them do percentage damage of a type which some classes cant mitigate. So what? Bear trap has exactly the same damage profile and it was in the game for ages, the percentage is set not to oneshot you anyway so it's ok even if you got no mitigation.

So what's the problem exactly? That they're traps? That's discrimination.

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Turtledove wrote:

I agree. In my first post about labyrinth, I said the same thing, IIRC. What I also said though was that such boring tedious content should not have been used to gate the post powerful character buffs in the game. It should have instead been done as optional content.

Well, they had to use something, maybe the alternative would be something I wouldn't like or something Xavathos wouldn't like. They're gating breachlord uniques behind breaches which I don't like and gate Rigwald uniques behind talismans which I do, sometimes you luck out and sometimes you don't.

Sad that group mentality is starting to affect otherwise logical and respectable forum members :(. I would check for signs of petrifaction.

Also xavanthos you are trying too much to make comparisons between things that are irrelevant. We talk about similarities in the gameplay and structural aspect of those games mentioned not their rewards, my nephew who doesn't know english understood the point of the comparison, how you couldn't?. You like it or not prince of persia is an arcade game (at least the one that ggg stole from) as is super metroid, and frogger, the fact that they put rewards belonging to arpgs doesnt make the playstyle arpg. It's quite simple honestly, and i cant fathom why all of a sudden while before GGG's word was the only truth for all of ya, now that you see the facts that even the devs solidify the (already solid) complaints in the OP you suddenly had a change of heart on what to say and believe.

There is no denial, one of the reasons the lab is that divisive is cause its alienating and unfitting to poe we came here for and that's 100% true for all those who were playing poe before the ascendancy expansion. Even you, and the rest of the white merry band. You may like it or got used to it or just swallow your pride and run it for whatever reason, but if you (plural) cant see that its different then there is seriously a big problem with your perception.

That doesn't apply to those who came to PoE after the lab was introduced, but even those people can see the differences and its obvious by the new people posting how boring, different and unfun the lab is. People with half your poe experience and can see the differences, whats up with you lot and cant accept simple facts? Would it change your enjoyment of the game? Or you think that by denying it isn't true? Or by accepting it you suddenly lose the debate? Don't worry your presence in it is minimal, cause there are literally no arguments for your side besides the monetary cost that would burden GGG, and even for that there are ideas that have no costs. Are you flat-earth believers also by the way?

This thread already achieved a lot of things, things that even the farmers and lovers get to experience and enjoy. Sentinel traps? Lab Rework Ideas spoiler suggestion number 6 literally the new traps in the endgame lab are a creation of this thread and do you know what makes them superior to the other bullshit? They are interactable. Less trials, waypoints, less traps for the main route, more fair damage vs es and hybrid builds all those things are coming from feedback inside this thread and many others in this feedback and suggestion sub-section, despite the efforts of 5 white knights to discredit and degrade our cause. I guess GGG is paying more attention that you thought on our "insulting" and "useless" "circle-jerking" feedback.

For a while now the only reason i can see for people bashing on something that helped the game and the community to enjoy a better experience, is for personal entertainment, its fun to debate online and if you are in a certain group of people even enjoyable to bash others, online again.

Oh i almost forgot, on kill effects are fps now? I thought those were from DnD and onwards, you know extra attack on killing blow (cleave dnd), or life gain on kill (poe) or onslaught on kill, or frenzy charge on kill etc.... Seriously check for signs of petrifaction, its never too late.

Don't lie to yourselves, if tomorrow GGG had magically found the money/time and reallocated the points or added any of the alternatives/rework ideas here in the OP or something along those lines created by them, nobody would bat an eye, on the contrary people would go out on the streets and would be cheering GGG's name, except the 5 white knights in this thread that are too - for a lack of a better words - proud and stubborn to do otherwise. Though its in their blood to cheer for GGG whatever their decisions, so who knows.

So get out of your head the monetary and time limitations, we know about them and GGG knows about them (obvious example the butchering of the labs in beta that are probably the most cost and time effective changes GGG could come up with) and come up with ideas that have little to no costs that would improve the whole experience FOR ALL. After all its easy to call useless something when projecting, as we say here in Greece " the donkey called the rooster big-headed" (equivalent of the pot calling the kettle black)

Also there is a difference in trying (or stealing and copy pasting) elements from other games and making them OPTIONAL and a whole other matter creating what we have now with lab. Again for the 100nth time lets see when they add racing with rhoas in the game because someone in the office has a big affection for racing simulators and then lock character progression behind it. ITS EXACTLY THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED WITH THE LAB. Rhoas are in the game so long, we know that the emperors watched games in the arenas and hippodromes so probably rhoa racing was a thing too. Yeah, yeah that seems legit... WAKE UP

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Turtledove wrote:

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raics wrote:

You know, all this wouldn't be so amusing if PoE didn't borrow from more games than it doesn't. That's certainly no news and you can't really fault devs for finding inspiration in other games or even genres. The way I see it, saying 'you implemented frogger elements badly, this and this doesn't work well' is a lot more fair than ridiculing them 'you implemented stuff from frogger'. Of course they should, I don't want them to stop doing that, whenever they spot something in other games that might work in PoE I want them to give it a shot.

I agree. In my first post about labyrinth, I said the same thing, IIRC. What I also said though was that such boring tedious content should not have been used to gate the post powerful character buffs in the game. It should have instead been done as optional content.

Sure, as long as you get an equally challenging alternative task to do to get the ascendancy points if not from the Lab. Which then ends up in another of these threads, because it's still not free power.

Why would they waste time and resources developing something new just so the name of this thread can change? It was never meant to be power creep, so moving the points is just moving the problem from Lab to the next thing they're rightfully locked behind.

Talk to me anytime I'm in-game and I'll take you through the Lab for free, no problem, so you don't have to worry about it anymore.

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Regulator wrote:

Oh i almost forgot, on kill effects are fps now? I thought those were from DnD and onwards, you know extra attack on killing blow (cleave dnd), or life gain on kill (poe) or onslaught on kill, or frenzy charge on kill etc.... Seriously check for signs of petrifaction, its never too late.

Ah, but they aren't on kill effects, they're 'on killstreak' effects which are commonly used in FPS games, that's where the term comes from. Might be wrong, but I strongly suspect some fan of Unreal tournament named the league.