SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]
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Fruz wrote:
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coaa wrote:
I've always loved that traps FORCE you to slow down. Some builds can easily plow through them still but for the most part you need to pay attention, even at level 100 because they scale. Traps are one of my favorite parts of the lab. No matter how disgusting your gear is they still keep you humble.
Thank you for voicing your opinion for the lab, you are the xxth on the l...
err, nop, I can't do it :P.
Ironically, the most efficient way to go through the lab is to rush as fast as you can ...
I wish it wasn't like that. but it is, it requires a lot of movement speed though, but still.
Of course the most efficient way to go thru the lab is rush as fast as you can. I think it would be better if there was a more effective way, but the most efficient is always going to be to rush.
Then I guess that what I wanted to say was "I wish that rushing throught the lab like a bullet would be riskier than what it is now, would have some counter-measures".
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Traps build off of what you've been introduced to though. In normal they have less of them, less threat, but its an introduction, by merciless they are more complicated have patterns that are still predictable, but not usually just strait line mechanics and by uber lab they added on additional challenges, which for the most part can be destroyed.
The lore behind the encounter is out there, but essentially the boss is in the lab with traps of his own creation. Without the traps, the lab doesn't feel right, without the multiple stage boss the content doesn't feel right, but put them both together and it sort of just works.
Of course everyone isn't going to like it because it can't fully be overleveled, it can't be achieved without running thru it, even if you do get help in various ways, it isn't as easy as "take my tp and wait outside" so of course naturally people are going to complain about the challenge.
I mean a prime example that proves that at least some people that complain about the lab are full of shit is people like earlier that make statements like "lab is #1 hc killer" How is GGG or anyone suppose to take you all seriously when you have people like that posting?
I know the lab lore, and I know what it (tries) to do. You say it "just works", while I feel it doesn't. And this wall of text without even touching what I quoted from you, and argumented against, shows a little lack of... Arguments? :P
I really don't care why people hate the lab. I dislike it for my own reasons, others for their reasons. No matter the reason, it shows that lab IS and will always BE a "debated" content. And you know why? Because IT IS DIFFERENT from the main game, even tho you view it as "the same", just because it's all about avoidance.
Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
Well, then 95% of the bosses in the game fail too, no mood, no music, no adrenaline and so on.
But they probably don't. As I said before we're mostly old players here and our views are heavily skewed, I'm sure plenty of less accomplished players are having a blast with those same bosses. Maybe we aren't having fun with them (unless curbstomping is your idea of fun), but as long as enough people do it's fine.
I somewhat agree. The Ascendancy Power creep removed a lot of "tension" in fights, though it wasn't VERY hard before. But the HP increase IS a step in the right direction. The "watch TV while playing"-quote, on the other hand...
Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
Traps build off of what you've been introduced to though. In normal they have less of them, less threat, but its an introduction, by merciless they are more complicated have patterns that are still predictable, but not usually just strait line mechanics and by uber lab they added on additional challenges, which for the most part can be destroyed.
The lore behind the encounter is out there, but essentially the boss is in the lab with traps of his own creation. Without the traps, the lab doesn't feel right, without the multiple stage boss the content doesn't feel right, but put them both together and it sort of just works.
Of course everyone isn't going to like it because it can't fully be overleveled, it can't be achieved without running thru it, even if you do get help in various ways, it isn't as easy as "take my tp and wait outside" so of course naturally people are going to complain about the challenge.
I mean a prime example that proves that at least some people that complain about the lab are full of shit is people like earlier that make statements like "lab is #1 hc killer" How is GGG or anyone suppose to take you all seriously when you have people like that posting?
I know the lab lore, and I know what it (tries) to do. You say it "just works", while I feel it doesn't. And this wall of text without even touching what I quoted from you, and argumented against, shows a little lack of... Arguments? :P
I really don't care why people hate the lab. I dislike it for my own reasons, others for their reasons. No matter the reason, it shows that lab IS and will always BE a "debated" content. And you know why? Because IT IS DIFFERENT from the main game, even tho you view it as "the same", just because it's all about avoidance.
It's amusing that GGG apologists such as goetzjam have to jump every time on the ''it's totally in the lore bandwagon '' and pull arguments out of their derriere on how lab is not ''different from mechanics in the game''. Malachai for instance might have a tinier area but it's also just a boss, no traps to get to him. It must be some sort of platformer fetish trend going on . All I know is that anything not related to hack and slash SHOULD be optional. If they want to add loot for running labs sure, but not ascendancy points. As I said before, if I wanted to play Mario, I'd play Mario not POE.
Traps build off of what you've been introduced to though. In normal they have less of them, less threat, but its an introduction, by merciless they are more complicated have patterns that are still predictable, but not usually just strait line mechanics and by uber lab they added on additional challenges, which for the most part can be destroyed.
The lore behind the encounter is out there, but essentially the boss is in the lab with traps of his own creation. Without the traps, the lab doesn't feel right, without the multiple stage boss the content doesn't feel right, but put them both together and it sort of just works.
Of course everyone isn't going to like it because it can't fully be overleveled, it can't be achieved without running thru it, even if you do get help in various ways, it isn't as easy as "take my tp and wait outside" so of course naturally people are going to complain about the challenge.
I mean a prime example that proves that at least some people that complain about the lab are full of shit is people like earlier that make statements like "lab is #1 hc killer" How is GGG or anyone suppose to take you all seriously when you have people like that posting?
I know the lab lore, and I know what it (tries) to do. You say it "just works", while I feel it doesn't. And this wall of text without even touching what I quoted from you, and argumented against, shows a little lack of... Arguments? :P
I really don't care why people hate the lab. I dislike it for my own reasons, others for their reasons. No matter the reason, it shows that lab IS and will always BE a "debated" content. And you know why? Because IT IS DIFFERENT from the main game, even tho you view it as "the same", just because it's all about avoidance.
It's amusing that GGG apologists such as goetzjam have to jump every time on the ''it's totally in the lore bandwagon '' and pull arguments out of their derriere on how lab is not ''different from mechanics in the game''. Malachai for instance might have a tinier area but it's also just a boss, no traps to get to him. It must be some sort of platformer fetish trend going on . All I know is that anything not related to hack and slash SHOULD be optional. If they want to add loot for running labs sure, but not ascendancy points. As I said before, if I wanted to play Mario, I'd play Mario not POE.
Then go play Mario if you like platformers so much. PoE is not even remotely comparable to a platformer.
Why do people like Goetzjam jump into the thread every time this happens? Because what you claim is nonsense and people might actually take it for truth if left unchecked.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.
'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Then go play Mario if you like platformers so much. PoE is not even remotely comparable to a platformer.
Why do people like Goetzjam jump into the thread every time this happens? Because what you claim is nonsense and people might actually take it for truth if left unchecked.[/quote]
Except I don't like platformers or anything even remotely related to it and despise every time a game decides to shove it up the players' throat with weak arguments such as ''it's to enhance the game's flavour''. What I claim is what many others claim, the fact ascendancy should have NEVER ended up behind the lab. The only ones that I see defending the argument of ''lab is totally fine'' are the ones getting erections from platformer games and the lab runners that are not skilled enough to farm atziri but since they are decent at platformers don't want their piggy bank coins supply lighten.
Honestly the whole gating ascendancy behind lab is complete and utter BS. Before someone pulls a ''you also want everything easy peasy'', Lab is nr 1 thing that rips characters in HC because it's not optimized for all builds, it's a mix of both fighting and traps which hinders some builds.
Let's take for example a summoner, and we not talking an srs, but a summoner using spectres, zombies,golem and possibly skeletons. You have close to 13-14 minions moving on the screen even when you stand still everywhere. Lab has the bad habit of including traps which are not always obvious or push you into more traps. Darts for instance are the perfect example with their 70% slow which could be lethal if combined with a saw passing right through you. As a summoner it's a hard choice because on one end without minions traps would be much easier, but then monsters would be the issue. Lab either needs to be traps only and no fighting or fighting and no traps.
The other big issue is the fact layout is randomized, which means some combos will screw you even further. Some layouts are cake, while others make you want to bang your head on a wall. A bs layout I found in a final itzaro room had 3/4 of the map blocked due to fire on 2 sides, 6 darts divided into 3 on each side severely restricting your movement area. Add on the top of that itzaro and 14 minions covering half of the screen. On the other hand an RF build might simply laugh at that thing and deal with this np.
Lab would have been great to give uniques only and better rewards, but not ascendancy points. This just makes it feel mandatory (yes it might not be needed, but then again with that logic it's not needed to go further than Hillock in twilight normal, you could just farm monsters there for days). If they keep adding more content like that, it will just make even more players give up on the game .
Edit: Also this comes from a guy that played guild wars 2 where the same BS happen, where they started adding platformer crap in endgame content. If I want that, I'd play Mario
andreicde, thank you for voicing your opinion that gating ascendancy points behind labyrinth is BS. I've added your name to the list of players that have voiced a similar opinion now at 913 names. As the list gets longer our voice grows stronger. Over 330 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 910 posters in support
Here's andreicde's summary profile.
Joined:
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andreicde is not the first player that has pointed out that summoners are at a special disadvantage in the labyrinth due to poor visibility. I mean poor visibility is a common complaint anyway but all the summoned beings running around significantly exasperates the problem.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
andreicde is not the first player that has pointed out that summoners are at a special disadvantage in the labyrinth due to poor visibility. I mean poor visibility is a common complaint anyway but all the summoned beings running around significantly exasperates the problem.
What worries me much more in that regard is lack of player flexibility. Zombies are the only real problem there, they're dead easy to replenish and players still can't do the most obvious thing and get rid of few if it's a problem. Rushing mentality permeates every facet of the game, we just aren't thinking nearly enough, we aren't conditioned to.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
