SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Turtledove wrote:

andreicde is not the first player that has pointed out that summoners are at a special disadvantage in the labyrinth due to poor visibility. I mean poor visibility is a common complaint anyway but all the summoned beings running around significantly exasperates the problem.

Disadvantage on visibly, advantage on having meat shields that work against darts and depending on the minions you have can effectively offscreen the destroyable traps in the uber lab.

I'm not some master minion or summon expert but you sort of control what your minions do, the only time I think it provides a "disadvantage" is if someone else is there as well and they don't have control over your minions.

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What I claim is what many others claim, the fact ascendancy should have NEVER ended up behind the lab. The only ones that I see defending the argument of ''lab is totally fine'' are the ones getting erections from platformer games and the lab runners that are not skilled enough to farm atziri but since they are decent at platformers don't want their piggy bank coins supply lighten.

Can you agree it should remain something outside of what you normally do, considering how massive of a power creep and power spike you as a player get from it? Disagree with the design all you want, GGG wasn't going to add such a high amount of power creep behind something that took no time or effort. For once they actually made something you needed to be involved in and couldn't carry and buy your whole way thru.

I don't get erections from platformer games, I do play and perhaps enjoy them sometimes, but the lab, traps and principles behind it DO IN FACT FIT AN ARPG game.

Not good enough to farm atziri? Atziri is a fucking joke these days because of the massive power creep. I'm super fucking serious. Plenty of builds can trivialize her so your ignorant ass comment that people that do the lab couldn't do atziri in most cases is very much false.

Hell anyone that plays a melee character could just grab AB, grab a punchy totem and watch it shit on every aspect of atziri.

Oh poor souls, and you were doing so well lately i even thought there is still hope for ya all. Why back to that denial strategy?

Once again Dan and Josiah, two of the lab's creators and GGG staff members responsible for the lab presentation and Josiah responsible for the recent beta lab feedback thread, said the following things in their powerpoint presentation :

1)The Prison had some of the earliest gauntlets we designed. This one is affectionately nicknamed the "Frogger" gauntlet.
2)Very Different from our usual content
3)Traps deal percentage damage so that is equal for ALL (is it mate?)
4)We expect movement skill but can not require players to use them
5)Normal PoE combat only sometimes plays well with traps, we insulate monsters a bit from trap zones
6)The Labyrinth isn't universally beloved content and there are things we'd do differently knowing what we know now

Amongst those points they also decided to put some pictures in it, one of their choices was Prince of Persia (yes the original game i also mention in the opening post in one of the spoilers) plus from the Super Metroid another (absolutely amazing) arcade 90's game.


If you are still gonna turn a blind eye and continue the usual bullshit keep it up, you degrade your own intelligence by doing so. Devs call parts of the lab frogger and directly copy pasted 80' and 90' arcade games, and you continue sucking the "but its the same as poe" lolipop?. (google it if you are not already familiar with it) Unlike the trolls that pollute the forums and this thread specifically, we give solid facts and speak truths, not spill half empty words and hollow claims.

So get your misinformed selves out of here and go pest others like you. Or read again the opening post, who knows it might even open your eyes if you read it even once which i doubt you did ever, and if you did then come with some new suggestions on how to rework the lab. One idea - of the many suggested - by both a lab critic and a defender was already implemented when endgame lab was introduced, maybe you too can be useful instead of derailing and polluting this thread.

EDIT : Also hope for a greater rework (not reallocation though probably) that comes from the following announcement : "Due to the huge pile of act content we are finishing up, our time for Labyrinth updates in 3.0.0 is extremely short. We wanted to try one fairly simple change, and gradually scale the size of the Labyrinth from normal to endgame." Which obviously suggests that lab talks still happen in the office and amongst other changes the one they made was the easier and less time consuming for the present moment. Maybe one day we will get even excited when entering the lab who knows!

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Regulator wrote:

Maybe one day we will get even excited when entering the lab who knows!

Maybe one day, when you take off your 90s nostalgia sunglasses and see it for what it really is, completely and utterly different and nowhere even near comparable.

It's like you're comparing a bicycle to an airplane, because they both have wheels. Just because they have similarities doesn't mean they're a clone of each other or that they are meant to do the same things.

Mario didn't have freaking ascendancy points which made him twice as strong, fast or made him shoot feathers out of his bum which returned after hitting targets when he completed a map.

Prince of Persia didn't have enchants for his gear at the end of a level.

Frogger didn't have... anything Path of Exile has, except a frog. Such similar, many wow.

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andreicde wrote:

It's amusing that GGG apologists such as goetzjam have to jump every time on the ''it's totally in the lore bandwagon '' and pull arguments out of their derriere on how lab is not ''different from mechanics in the game''. Malachai for instance might have a tinier area but it's also just a boss, no traps to get to him. It must be some sort of platformer fetish trend going on . All I know is that anything not related to hack and slash SHOULD be optional. If they want to add loot for running labs sure, but not ascendancy points. As I said before, if I wanted to play Mario, I'd play Mario not POE.

Goes to show how little you know about me. The lab is one of the only designs that GGG has done recently to combat the whole entitled instant gratification that players like you are demanding from the game.

You just want to get your shit, rofl stomp the game and move onto whatever other game you want to get your instant gratification in. And in the process the ideas this game were built on, the spark that made this game so interesting have been crushed at every turn.

We can't have one fucking game without people like you just shitting on that idea, can we?


No traps to get to him? Ok, but you still have to do 3 mini bosses before him, ones that have aoe affects that guess what you need to fucking avoid. In that last boss room, especially after you kill the 2 hearts theres a lot of shit going on in that room.



Anything not related to hack and slash, hum its as if this is an ARPG game, not a hack and slash game where loot or mechanics aren't even largely considered. See dynasty warrior style games for hack and slash ideas.

Part of an ARPG game is developing your character and planning around the content you do, which includes the lab.

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goetzjam wrote:

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andreicde wrote:

It's amusing that GGG apologists such as goetzjam have to jump every time on the ''it's totally in the lore bandwagon '' and pull arguments out of their derriere on how lab is not ''different from mechanics in the game''. Malachai for instance might have a tinier area but it's also just a boss, no traps to get to him. It must be some sort of platformer fetish trend going on . All I know is that anything not related to hack and slash SHOULD be optional. If they want to add loot for running labs sure, but not ascendancy points. As I said before, if I wanted to play Mario, I'd play Mario not POE.

Goes to show how little you know about me. The lab is one of the only designs that GGG has done recently to combat the whole entitled instant gratification that players like you are demanding from the game.

You just want to get your shit, rofl stomp the game and move onto whatever other game you want to get your instant gratification in. And in the process the ideas this game were built on, the spark that made this game so interesting have been crushed at every turn.

We can't have one fucking game without people like you just shitting on that idea, can we?


No traps to get to him? Ok, but you still have to do 3 mini bosses before him, ones that have aoe affects that guess what you need to fucking avoid. In that last boss room, especially after you kill the 2 hearts theres a lot of shit going on in that room.



Anything not related to hack and slash, hum its as if this is an ARPG game, not a hack and slash game where loot or mechanics aren't even largely considered. See dynasty warrior style games for hack and slash ideas.

Part of an ARPG game is developing your character and planning around the content you do, which includes the lab.

<3 Goetz.

You say things I want to but don't end up saying.

People have no patience anymore. It's not just in gaming, it's everywhere. Nukes aren't going to end up destroying the human race, disease isn't, instant gratification is. We are literally digging our own graves as we speak by the way we view the world around us as something that can just be abused without consequence. Look at how animals are treated, just because they provide profitable luxury goods. Entire rain forests are destroyed by the demand on high quality wood. Absolutely massive amounts of plastic that does not decay is dumped into the oceans every day, killing multiple thousands of sea dwelling creatures and contaminating the water. Not to mention the effect that we have on the climate, and it's all because we want things and we want them not next week, not tomorrow, but NOW. And who cares about tomorrow, right? We wouldn't be around to deal with it, just like you wouldn't be around to deal with Path of Exile after it's been stupefied like almost every other game nowadays.

I love challenges, I love new leagues every few months, I love starting over with nothing. I want to work for something and that's what Path of Exile has always been about. You get punished for not taking time to create a build (or follow a guide of someone who did), because the game is brutal. Every step of the way requires investment of some kind and that's a big part of makes this game so brilliant. It's not afraid to kick your ass and send you back to the drawing board, in fact, it tries to every step of the way.

Labyrinth is a part of that way, a stepping stone, a challenge like no other found within the game, with great rewards awaiting you when you complete it successfully.

TL;DR
Path of Exile is so successful because it is not like any other game in its genre. Those trying to change that, are trying to harm the game. Obviously fans will eagerly defend it.

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goetzjam wrote:

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andreicde wrote:

It's amusing that GGG apologists such as goetzjam have to jump every time on the ''it's totally in the lore bandwagon '' and pull arguments out of their derriere on how lab is not ''different from mechanics in the game''. Malachai for instance might have a tinier area but it's also just a boss, no traps to get to him. It must be some sort of platformer fetish trend going on . All I know is that anything not related to hack and slash SHOULD be optional. If they want to add loot for running labs sure, but not ascendancy points. As I said before, if I wanted to play Mario, I'd play Mario not POE.

Goes to show how little you know about me. The lab is one of the only designs that GGG has done recently to combat the whole entitled instant gratification that players like you are demanding from the game.

You just want to get your shit, rofl stomp the game and move onto whatever other game you want to get your instant gratification in. And in the process the ideas this game were built on, the spark that made this game so interesting have been crushed at every turn.

We can't have one fucking game without people like you just shitting on that idea, can we?


No traps to get to him? Ok, but you still have to do 3 mini bosses before him, ones that have aoe affects that guess what you need to fucking avoid. In that last boss room, especially after you kill the 2 hearts theres a lot of shit going on in that room.



Anything not related to hack and slash, hum its as if this is an ARPG game, not a hack and slash game where loot or mechanics aren't even largely considered. See dynasty warrior style games for hack and slash ideas.

Part of an ARPG game is developing your character and planning around the content you do, which includes the lab.

This is amusing at most. Instant gratification? You still have to work for it so not sure where that ''instant gratification'' comes into account unless you buy items with $ or your friends give you free shit.

And no, entitled platform loves that get a boner from those type of activities do not get a game without people like me because this game is not mentioned as such. If you look on steam, it's mentioned as a ''free to play, action RPG, RPG, hack and slash'', no signs of the ''platformer'' like it is shown on prince of Persia, so your your fallacy bs for yourself.

Also it is not an ARPG , learn what the definition of an ARPG is then come back trying to act smart.

People like me want to play what WAS ADVERTISED, aka a fucking RPG/Hack and slash. If your argument is that ''lab is optional'', then sure it is, just as much as going outside of the starter area is. Ascendancy points should just be removed from lab and instead GGG buff the lab rewards to encourage people that love it to continue running.

If you have a problem with that, then that's not my fucking problem, I added a solution to please both sides, denying just shows what a bunch of self hypocritical egomaniacs the opposition would be. Last I checked there is no ''right way'' to play the game.

If it doesn't fit what you think it is as advertised that isn't the fault of the game. No where does GGG say its a simple hack and slash game. Those steam ones are fucking user defined, not dev defined and ultimately go to show how stupid players can be.

ARPG

ARPG

APPG


[Removed by Support]

All while you makeup bullshit stats about #1 hardcore killer being the lab...rofl get good

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Xavathos wrote:

Mario didn't have freaking ascendancy points which made him twice as strong, fast or made him shoot feathers out of his bum which returned after hitting targets when he completed a map.

No. He had a big mushroom which had done that for him. The mushroom appeared after jumping over/under specific tiles on a platform (sounds familiar?)

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Nishrek wrote:

No. He had a big mushroom which had done that for him. The mushroom appeared after jumping over/under specific tiles on a platform (sounds familiar?)

Yeah, sounds suspiciously like a shrine bonus to me, a friggin ripoff

Now seriously, how come players don't complain we have an FPS mechanic in the game when they introduced Rampage? Maybe because Rampage makes us go faster, not slower. There just might be a pattern there.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

Maybe one day we will get even excited when entering the lab who knows!

Maybe one day, when you take off your 90s nostalgia sunglasses and see it for what it really is, completely and utterly different and nowhere even near comparable.

It's like you're comparing a bicycle to an airplane, because they both have wheels. Just because they have similarities doesn't mean they're a clone of each other or that they are meant to do the same things.

Mario didn't have freaking ascendancy points which made him twice as strong, fast or made him shoot feathers out of his bum which returned after hitting targets when he completed a map.

Prince of Persia didn't have enchants for his gear at the end of a level.

Frogger didn't have... anything Path of Exile has, except a frog. Such similar, many wow.

The GAME PLAY of trap gauntlets are similar to the GAME PLAY of those other mentioned games. That doesn't mean that those other aspects of the game are the same. The GAME PLAY and the game are two different things.