SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Everyone knows what sucks,boring,shitty,bad design,#$%^^ed up,unfun,tedious,cheesy,exploitable,unfair means. We do not need a dictionary.

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Fruz wrote:

And it ended up being pure semantic now, which will very soon be boring.

Ok, let's sum up. In YOUR eyes, by YOUR definition, boring is BY YOU associated with "time spent", giving YOU a notion of being bad?

So it's OK for me to say that I find the lab NOT FUN, while still mastering it? But if I use the word BORING, it implies that I struggle? Ok, for YOUR sake, I'll stop using the word "boring", because YOU associate it with "time spent". Just for you <3

Let's try again:

I find the lab tremendously NOT FUN, it does not give me any form of enjoyment and I do not feel rewarded by beating the "obstacles" (traps/Izaro/Argus) themselves - EVEN tho I do not find any of the obstacles HARD or DIFFICULT. I find the mechanics of the lab UNINTERESTING and bad designed. I want them to rework the lab, to make it more FUN and INTERESTING, to help players feel enjoyment WHILE running it, or a complete different ALTERNATIVE to the lab, where you can EARN your ascendancy points.

So, I did not use the word "boring" or "tedious", so I did not give you any association to "time spent". Are you still going to call me a liar, and say that it's bullshit? Or are you going to respect my point of view, that I just don't find it fun or interesting?

Please just read what Raics said before.

And yeah, if you word it like this, I don't see a problem, honestly.

I was pointing at some users keeping repeating "it's really not hard, but it's so boring and tedious !", essentially saying c'mon .... something is wrong there.
That's all there was to it.

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raics wrote:

What I mean to say is, doesn't it smell of autosuggestion to you, not even a tiny bit? Hell, it takes more than ten minutes of just waiting in line somewhere before I start getting bored.

Maybe the notion of boring is way too relative to oneself, I don't know ...
I've never used or heard "bored" being used in another way to be honest.

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raics wrote:

Well, just try to understand his angle. A player spends 50 hours with one character doing the usual PoE thing and doesn't get bored, all well and good. And then he spends 10-20 minutes doing the usual PoE thing plus a bit on the side and all of a sudden he's bored out of his mind.

What I mean to say is, doesn't it smell of autosuggestion to you, not even a tiny bit? Hell, it takes more than ten minutes of just waiting in line somewhere before I start getting bored.

I understand his views just fine. But the "usual PoE thing" is many different things, and is why we are here; to enjoy them. The lab thing is so different from "the usual PoE thing", and feels very misplaced. But I'm not going to repeat that, you know how I feel about it.

I get bored straight away while waiting in lines, but I endure. It takes a while before I start to get restless. Takes even more time before I get irritated. But bored? A feeling I get straight away when something isn't giving me enjoyment or a sense of meaning.

I absolutely hate the lab... It turns an action RPG to super mario brother skill which I dont enjoy.

I do however, like ascendancy classes... I dont think the lab should be tied to the ascendancy...

Maybe make the lab for extra loot if you want a challenge with a leaderboard for time or something.

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Phrazz wrote:

I understand his views just fine. But the "usual PoE thing" is many different things, and is why we are here; to enjoy them. The lab thing is so different from "the usual PoE thing", and feels very misplaced. But I'm not going to repeat that, you know how I feel about it.

I get bored straight away while waiting in lines, but I endure. It takes a while before I start to get restless. Takes even more time before I get irritated. But bored? A feeling I get straight away when something isn't giving me enjoyment or a sense of meaning.

I see it as a scale, myself. You're normally somewhere in the neutral part of the scale between 'entertained' and 'bored', an activity can be 'fun' or 'boring' in some amount and it moves you along that scale to one end or the other faster or slower.

So, the way I see it, 'bored' isn't a state of performing a boring activity, it's a state you reach after performing a boring activity for long enough to hit that end of the scale. Getting restless or irritated is just a personal reaction to 'bored' state, some are irritable when bored and some are not, some don't have a reaction at all.

Anyway, I'm not saying it's impossible, it could happen
- You might be conditioning yourself like Zalhan does in the previous post. In that case your reaction on exposure to the trigger element can be intense even if the exposure is minimal. I seem to recall some article about a kid that developed an allergic reaction to school which is an extreme case but it isn't unusual to feel physically sick on encountering a person that wronged you in some way and you've been brooding over it for a long time.
- Another thing is you might be at a breaking point, it might be just burnout at a point where the game is only mildly 'entertaining' so content you don't like pushes it over solidly into 'boring'. For instance, if lab was -10 ent/min for you and you're normally at +2 ent/min that would be -8 ent/min total and if your 'bored' state was at -80 you'd reach it in 10min, ok, probably faster, it isn't a linear function because of natural dropoff.

Honestly I hate most games who make save points intended to artificially extend the learning curve by wasting your time while learning the fight.

Clearing trash to the fight once , even if it's an hour is fine. But having to clear it EVERY FUCKING GOD DAMN TIME , not for loot but just to learn a god damn fight, is a deal breaker for me.

I don't mind hard content. I do mind lazy cheap developers who substitute content by abusing your trust by making the learning curve longer so they can be cheap on the content.

Then because it's a lazy way to extend the game they make you do it 4 times and add even worse content to get to it to hide the lack of new content even more.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Honestly I hate most games who make save points intended to artificially extend the learning curve by wasting your time while learning the fight.

Well, you can't make a game that's 'nintendo hard' if you don't do that. If there's something PoE rewards highly it's meta knowledge.

There are lots of games who just make the encounters hard to learn with multiple phases and changing tactics during the fight.

Heroic->Mythic WOW is about the right hard, with normal a way to begin to learn the fight on training wheels. No save points and yet you still waste weeks of your time clearing 10 bosses, unless your uber.

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raics wrote:

I see it as a scale, myself.

Well, I don't :)

Like just now, my brother (I am "home" at vacation) just asked me if I'd like to play a game of "President" (a card game). I told him "no", because I find that game boring. One round takes about 2 minutes. 2 minutes isn't much, but I still find the game boring, in the sense of "not fun". It might be my language, where our translation of the word means "not fun". Maybe it means something different in English. And even though I have been studying English, I might have missed that part. I don't know.

I have another scale. Doing something boring starts this scale. First you endure. Then you get restless. Then you get annoyed. Irritated. Angry. Boring is in my mind "how you view" an activity, not a feeling. But, again, it might be because of my language.