SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]
|
Uber Izaro isn't a different story, uber Izaro was the whole point (obviously).
"I'm afraid you don't get anything." " Not exactly. The point is that somebody pretending being super good at the lab, and finding it boring, is showing a lot of bad faith, or just lying. Feel free to pick one. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jun 25, 2017, 8:15:56 AM
| |
" I'm not pretending to be super good at anything. Stop exaggerating to make a point. If it in your eyes is "super good" to run the lab in about 6 minutes, ok, you're free to feel that way. I don't, and I've told you several times in this thread that I have run it in 6 minutes. But again, you refuse to believe it. Or bring forth "bad faith". Can you explain that part? Is it bad faith to find something boring? It's not like I can fully control what I find boring and not. And believe me, I have tried. I've run the hell out of the lab to see if it got less a pain in the ass. It just keep getting more and more boring, even though I got better and better. Now I never run it, except for the points. And as the last guy quoted yo on: Izaro has NEVER been the issue with the lab. Never. It's a good fight. The problem has ALWAYS been the boring "chores" you HAVE to do to get to him. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you. Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on Jun 25, 2017, 8:27:45 AM
|
|
|
Through the years I've noticed a certain pattern - the players who lack knowledge and/or practice, are the most confident in their words, and tend to be the most passionate in defending their flawed beliefs. Seeing the forest is just impossible with some.
Could be Dunning - Kruger in action, or something else. Can't tell. Uber Izaro isn't any different than normal/cruel/mercy by no means. Doesn't require certain builds or exclusive items. But a well geared and built character corresponding to his powers. Which could be hard because of the gear/progression wall (mostly at high levels), same as the rest of the high level content. That's it. The rest is player fighting skills. I, personally, have many builds not afraid to challenge uber Izaro, but wouldn't. Because of the risk to die to traps, builds just not good in mitigating unavoidable phys damage and replenishing HP. So no, he's not the "difficulty" of the lab. This is a buff © 2016 The Experts ™ 2017 Last edited by torturo#7228 on Jun 25, 2017, 8:46:32 AM
|
|
|
My opinion on traps being boring and why (and yes i am super good at lab):
The arpgs i loved playing had a lot of randomness in them; how many monsters you fight, random areas, random itemdrops etc. The lab however is always the same, the patterns are always the same, the timing is almost always the same, the solution is always the same. The lab and specifically traversing traps is like learning a history lesson by heart, while everything else isn't. Theorycrafting is like solving a math problem that has many solutions, which is fun to figure out, and fighting is like dancing, since you never know what form you or your partner will be at on that day or how many mistakes you are gonna do. Lab is always the same though. The whole concept of it is boring tedious and not fun as it lacks variation and i am sorry to say that i am very good at it, as i was with history lessons when i was in school. I did despise them though, because they were boring. I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
|
|
" Reality has little to do with the l2p argument that Fruz and others keep making. It is an argument that they have been pushing since the release of the crappy game play labyrinth. Lately Fruz seems to think he's improved on the delusional argument because he seems to be pushing the idea that it is not universally true. Admitting that maybe it possibly could be true for a very few someones but not likely true for most people even if they claim it to be true for themselves. Whereas the reality is that after someone goes into the labyrinth they will generally know fairly quickly whether or not they find the game play fun or not. I believe that this personal opinion about traps being fun or not is established early before the skill can even be gained. So skill usually has little to do with that conclusion. For example, I'm not skilled at traps. I don't find it fun so I avoid it. I don't remember dying to traps, although I do remember dying to Izaro. The worst thing by far dying to Izaro is then I have to redo the crappy trap game play again so I try to be way over leveled so that Izaro is no longer fun. edit:But there have been plenty of people coming to the lab threads and saying that they are skilled at traps but still don't like it. So this idea Fruz and company keeps trying to push is not based in reality. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired! Last edited by Turtledove#4014 on Jun 25, 2017, 9:02:46 AM
|
|
" All I can say to that is: Touché. But I challenge you to try and spend 550+ pages in this thread with the inhabitants that come with it and then ask yourself the same question, I think you'd understand where my assumption is rooted. ;) Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more. 'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league. Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave. |
|
" I may understand your assumption, I've started to taste something similar these last pages of this thread :) Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
|
|
" But it is in some cases. So he's allowed to say it, isn't he? It's his opinion, just like yours is yours. Not everything you say goes for every single player either, even if you'd like that. Not even close. So does that mean we can all not say anything anymore? If you die to Izaro or traps, it is a L2P issue, because they're fair and equal to all types of defensive stats and hitpoints. In the case of Izaro, you overbuffed him if you die to him or you don't dodge his big hits, let him teleport you into traps or let his minions hit you to 80% and then get 1 shot. It can all be explained and there's no "BS" mechanics there. You can disagree with that or you can say that you dislike Lab whether you're good at it or not, that's a fair point and your opinion, I respect that. But show the same respect to Fruz then, he's free to point out his view as well. Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more. 'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league. Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave. |
|
" It's hard to debate anything, when the other part is refusing to believe your stance. And I'm honestly struggling to see if some of the people in here are to ignorant to believe it, or refuses to believe it to still be able to use it as an argument. The first one is complete lack of empathy, while the other one is just a dick move. No matter, I'm done debating certain people in here. It's no point, when you're being called a liar every other post. Now I'm looking forward to test the changes. They've made some of the labs shorter, and even threw in a "and other changes based on community feedback" in addition. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
|
|
" Yes, dying is a l2p issue but, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about fun to play or not. Dying or not isn't relevant to whether or not trap game play is fun. Dying does add to the frustration especially in lab because of the silly portal decision but, I'm talking about whether or not someone has the opinion that trap game play in the lab is fun or not. The part about not being in touch with reality is that Sidtherat and Fruz (as examples of the folks making that argument) seem to not believe people when they say, "Lab is not fun. That opinion has nothing to do with whether I'm good at it or not. The game play is boring tedious and not fun." They seem to think that they know other people's minds better than those people know their own minds. That is why I don't think that their argument is based in reality. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
|
|
