SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

"

Phrazz wrote:

I'm not pretending to be super good at anything. Stop exaggerating to make a point. If it in your eyes is "super good" to run the lab in about 6 minutes, ok, you're free to feel that way. I don't, and I've told you several times in this thread that I have run it in 6 minutes.

See ? you are making it completely personal.
6 min is already in .. what .... 0.01% of the players maybe ? especially if you can keep it for most layout, most of the time.
And yes, super good is about the magnitude that my point was based on.
It is subjective though, I'll give you that.
I could use "very good" instead if you prefer, it won't change much.

"

Phrazz wrote:

And as the last guy quoted yo on: Izaro has NEVER been the issue with the lab. Never. It's a good fight. The problem has ALWAYS been the boring "chores" you HAVE to do to get to him.

Some obviously do have troubles with him, but I am aware that most people here are bitching about the traps, not about Izaro, I never said otherwise.
But let's be honest, in Uber, the big obstacle is Izaro, because gear, because that's where it actually tests your build, put your life pool to the test where many seem to build glass canon and not understand how defenses work (where it matters quite little before), etc ...

"

Torturo wrote:

Uber Izaro isn't any different than normal/cruel/mercy by no means.

Uber Izaro not different from the other Izaros ?
/facepalm
You are missing the point on purpose there, it's even worst than most do here (great example for what I am saying below though).
[Removed by Support]

"

Bunch of misinformed nonsense

Quoting the love of Arps because of random item drops (partly), and then saying that the lab is always the same.
Good job there.
So hypocritical.
Strands are definitely the most randoms area in the game, for example.

Anyway, I was expecting some particular individuals that have came here to fall in the category that I mentioned earlier.
Not surprised.
And another silly analogy that completely misses the point.
I'm getting used to it here.
But that's a perfect example of something that is getting boring though, thank you.

"

Turtledove wrote:

[...]

[Removed by Support]

And I see, so "dislike" <=> "boring" in all cases to you, [Removed by Support]

"

Phrazz wrote:

[...]

I'm sure that you know very well that many will resort to bad faith to try winning arguments, overusing superlatives, etc ...
That's exactly what I am pointing out here.
And the very fact that a handful of individuals have been using notions that are completely irrelevant the actual point to try to derail it is a perfect example.
Like the notion of "fun".

[Removed by Support]

"

Turtledove wrote:

Yes, dying is a l2p issue but, that's not what we're talking about

If you want to discuss with somebody, try to understand what they are saying first, and what they are talking about.
Because that's what I have been talking about for a while regarding a certain point [Removed by Support]

Aahhaha i cant stop laughing with what I'm reading, WK claiming other people don't understand their posts, that's indeed rich. Same WK that I'm willing to bet don't even know the purpose of the existence of this thread is, and that's why they keep derailing it.

Fruz I'm going to respond to your posting tactics for the first time and last, stop trying to bait people into word fights, and for all that is holy don't you ever do the quote thing again like you are used to, quote what part you are responding to and don't put "" with an insulting message in them like you did with pyrokar's post. Nobody will blame you for quoting a whole text, and if you feel its too clunky put the quote into a spoiler. That's only one of the many reasons you are getting a report today cause you are putting words in peoples "mouths". Its OK you made some really nonsensical and irrational claims (not the first time by any means) and trying to divert whatever the issue is to whatever you like. Stop it, you muffed it up again accept it and move on. Take some example from Xavanthos' posts he might be against the suggestions for whatever his personal reasons but he at least can conduct dialogue with others without this childish behavior of yours.

It wasn't long ago support posted against this kind of behavior and you seem to be the person putting oil in the fire. Respect them, respect the thread and respect the people you are discussing with, you've gone into a defensive mode and you are even more infuriating and irrational than usual. Get better.

EDIT: Forgot, a request to the rest, please do not derail, keep the personal matters and issues to yourself or discuss them via personal messages it's usually easier to solve them and you don't litter the place as well. Thank you.

"

Fruz wrote:

...

First of all, when someone calls me a liar, I tend to take it somewhat personal. Can't help it, because it's not the kind of person I am. I wouldn't lie to win an argument, and I wouldn't call people liars to excel my arguments. I wouldn't sink that low.

So then we're back to basics: If I am finding the lab "unfun"/boring", even tho I do not find it hard, I'm either a liar or "handling in bad faith" in your eyes. Because of logic.

And lastly; FUN is NEVER irrelevant in a video game. It is the MOST RELEVANT thing there is. Even though it is subjective as hell, it is still the most relevant thing. NONE of us would be here, if we didn't find the game fun. None. Absolutely no one. Maybe YOU find "fun" irrelevant, but then I begin to wonder what you are doing, playing this game?

YOU can't see how anyone can find something they master "boring"
YOU can't see how "fun" is relevant in a video game
YOU call people liars/"bad faith" as soon as you can't understand their point of view.

Because that seems yo be the issue here; You are unable to see things from my/ours perspective, so you keep making up what my/ours perspective is. "You don't find it boring, you find it difficult, or else, you are lying".

The lab = Boring. Tedious. Gives me no enjoyment. That's why I am here. Nothing else.

"

Regulator wrote:

[...]

When I make a point using specific words, the meaning of those words do matter, believe or not.

When there is [...], it obviously means the overall post, to show who I am answering to, for better readability obviously ...
Spoiler is annoying, it does hurt readability at the end since you need to wrap/unwrap stuff.

You reported me ? hahahaha, that's a good one there.
I could not care less.
[Removed by Support]

I "muff" nothing, however you (one more time) bring literally nothing here, and speaking about moving on, why don't you do the same about the lab ?
Or should I ask you again in 10 years from now, with Turtle, how his campaign and how your cute lab-hating propaganda are going ?

So hypocritical of you to attack on the behaviour, speaking about being childish.
Don't make me laugh with your respect, try to respect others first, then we can talk ( or not, actually, don't bother ).

"

Phrazz wrote:

[...]

Why are you putting unfun and boring together ???
One more time, "fun" was completely out of topic regarding the point I was making.
Something can be unfun and boring, and something can be unfun and not boring, those things don't always go together, how is that hard to understand ?

I said it from the very beginning : You find it not fun, alright no problem.
But if you are very good at it and take a very small amount of time doing it, then you can hardly find it boring.
But fun is different.

I was only pointing at people like the other guy "duh! I'm a pro Mario player, the lab is sooo easy, but it's soo boring, duh !".
Fun, is not the question here.
Replace "boring" by "fun" in the previous sentence and I have nothing against it.

Do you understand after those simple lines ?
Because if you don't, I give up trying to explain it to you.

Tedious (like boring) also implies a notion of time spent.
Which is not directly related to fun.


Talking about not understanding others point of view heh ...

559 pages of probably the same shit huh?

"

I_NO wrote:

559 pages of probably the same shit huh?

Hasn't moved.
I guess I'm to stupid to let those people circle jerk with each other ....
I should learn.

"

Fruz wrote:

Tedious (like boring) also implies a notion of time spent.
Which is not directly related to fun.

I don't know if you're a native English speaker or not. But "unfun" is not a official word. A direct antonym to "fun" is boring. Often used synonyms to "boring", are dull; repetitious; uninteresting. So when I use the word "boring", I use it to describe something I do not find fun. I use it to describe something dull. Something repetitious. Something uninteresting. Someting that does not give me a sense of enjoyment. And that is the lab for me, even though I do not find it hard.

That's the baseline of the discussion between you and me. You cannot comprehend that some players find it BORING(!), tedious, dull, repetitious and uninteresting, even though they do not find it hard. You can't. You won't. Or you refuse to.

And that's it: I (and MANY others) want a FUN alternative to the BORING lab. It can be challenging. It can be hard. But please, do not make it boring, dull or uninteresting.

You "hang yourself" up in the word boring, trying to connect it to "time spent", to undermind my/our use of it.

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

I'm not buying it

When you choose not to believe based on what's good/bad for your own arguments, it becomes a total waste of time to debate with you.

Reality has little to do with the l2p argument that Fruz and others keep making. It is an argument that they have been pushing since the release of the crappy game play labyrinth. Lately Fruz seems to think he's improved on the delusional argument because he seems to be pushing the idea that it is not universally true. Admitting that maybe it possibly could be true for a very few someones but not likely true for most people even if they claim it to be true for themselves. Whereas the reality is that after someone goes into the labyrinth they will generally know fairly quickly whether or not they find the game play fun or not. I believe that this personal opinion about traps being fun or not is established early before the skill can even be gained. So skill usually has little to do with that conclusion. For example, I'm not skilled at traps. I don't find it fun so I avoid it. I don't remember dying to traps, although I do remember dying to Izaro. The worst thing by far dying to Izaro is then I have to redo the crappy trap game play again so I try to be way over leveled so that Izaro is no longer fun.

edit:But there have been plenty of people coming to the lab threads and saying that they are skilled at traps but still don't like it. So this idea Fruz and company keeps trying to push is not based in reality.

The funny thing is no one is saying to change the Lab in any way, just make it legally optional. It's like the southpark "they took our guns" episode.

Its irrational and the content is ALREADY optional , just in a cheesy way we object too and want legitimized.

That leads to the question why do they want to keep it cheesy.

"

Phrazz wrote:

[...]

C'mon :/

I specifically said it last page.

boring => not fun
not fun - does not necessarily imply boring.


Literally what I said :

"Something can be unfun and boring, and something can be unfun and not boring, those things don't always go together, how is that hard to understand ?"


Same goes for uninteresting

For example, if we give a quick look to the wikipedia page of boredom ( because something boring is something that causes boredom ) :


Two synonyms don't have exactly the same meaning, there are differences.

And yes, I am aware that "unfun" isn't an official word, I was only using it because it was what you used.

Tedious is also a very close synonym for boring, because they usually describe something feeling that comes out from a certain amount of time spent.
One does not get "bored" without spending some amount of time doing what is causing the boredom.

And if you are really good at the lab, it's really going fast, which is why I said that you can hardly get bored in this case.
That was literally what I said from the very start, really.


And it ended up being pure semantic now, which will very soon be boring.

"

Phrazz wrote:

You cannot comprehend that some players find it BORING(!), tedious, dull, repetitious and uninteresting, even though they do not find it hard. You can't. You won't. Or you refuse to.

Well, just try to understand his angle. A player spends 50 hours with one character doing the usual PoE thing and doesn't get bored, all well and good. And then he spends 10-20 minutes doing the usual PoE thing plus a bit on the side and all of a sudden he's bored out of his mind.

What I mean to say is, doesn't it smell of autosuggestion to you, not even a tiny bit? Hell, it takes more than ten minutes of just waiting in line somewhere before I start getting bored.