SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Regulator wrote:

How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

Already answered that one, several times I think - I wouldn't mind an alternative ascension method as long as it's done well, not some hodgepodge I could mod in myself if you give me a week.

It's just that asking for one is unrealistic, not like suggesting, say, a Buster Sword skin mtx, that would be certain profit considering how iconic the item is and the (relatively) low amount of labor it would take. In a nutshell, I'm not asking for one because
1) I don't need it.
2) I couldn't guarantee the lab alternative would pay off and it isn't a trivial thing to ask. Could you still ask them to do it if we imagine it was your responsibility and you had to cover the cost difference out of your own pocket?

Already mentioned this, but I could back a suggestion for an alternative ascending method if it included a whole new set of ascendancies, that would be good shit and fully marketable. The trouble with that is it wouldn't solve your problem.

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Regulator wrote:

]How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

Indeed. But it often seems like the defenders of GGG's (never explained) decision to put the ascendancy classes behind the lab want to impose their own sense of moral rectitude about how to play computer games on those who simply hate that kind of gameplay (to the point of quitting the PoE).

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Hell put a "i want ascendancy points re-allocated MTX in the shop" and i bet you it would be the fastest and biggest selling mtx in your collection.

Great idea (are you listening GGG? :). I haven't spent a dime on PoE since the lab was introduced, and I'll never spend another dime while the lab remains as it is, but that's a purchase I'd gladly make.

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Regulator wrote:

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Xtreemer wrote:

i like the lab it offer something else to do beside mapping

Good for you and the rest in that group now please can you answer the following? (the rest of the same group too)

GGG answer the question yourself.

How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

Almost two years and there is still no answer to this (laughable claims and vague statements dont count and dont even deserve this game - same applies to those who give them). And do you know why there is no solid argument to this? Cause it simply will have zero effect to a large amount of the current players' experience and a POSITIVE one to the veterans of ARPG genre and the original PoE lovers, besides the lab carries. And since even the lab-lovers dont like the lab carry situation (or even consider it mandatory for support builds that suggestions in the op solve that too), we are left with zero negatives for such an implementation/change.

I double dare everyone who likes the lab even in the slightest to answer this question with honesty. And in the process realize themselves that they are either completely and utterly acting with self-interest, full of delusional idiocy, simply blissful ignorance or they have been lying all this time to themselves and they actually AGREE WITH AT LEAST ONE (if not more) SUGGESTION FROM THE OP.

Same applies to you GGG employees and developers, give an answer and then give us also a rough estimation of how much money you need for any of the suggestions to be implemented. Hell put a "i want ascendancy points re-allocated MTX in the shop" and i bet you it would be the fastest and biggest selling mtx in your collection.

GGG answered this question in a previous podcast or q\a, just ask your bff turtle to point it out to you, i'm sure he has it in a list somewhere.


Ignore the obvious point of you know waste of time and resource thing. Imagine how many of the people think about ggg spending time and resources on xbox, then imagine the people or ggg thinking hte same thing with your lab options. Creating options waters down the feeling of ascension and takes away from precious GGG time that could be spent working on many of the other things in the game.


Think, GGG could have just added one act and redone the lab or ac methods, but they choose instead to work on 10 acts and an xbox 1 release. clearly this isn't a priority for GGG and you even still play the game, so why would they change it just because you don't like it, you literally still play the game.

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ShaUrley wrote:

Indeed. But it often seems like the defenders of GGG's (never explained) decision to put the ascendancy classes behind the lab want to impose their own sense of moral rectitude about how to play computer games on those who simply hate that kind of gameplay (to the point of quitting the PoE).

Poor you, GGG "impose their own sense of moral rectitude about how to play computer games".
Life must be hard.


But honestly, do you realize how silly that statement was ? Do you realize that nobody forces to to anything, and that you could extent that messed up logic to every single video game that there is ???

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raics wrote:

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You forgot one :
- "I don't want GGG to waste their time and resources on something that I don't want, because I would rather have them produce actual, good content for the game".

And yes, that question has been answered over and over again, but the all mighty regulator just comes and spits his propaganda without reading anything that is actually being said in this thread, so he would not know of course ....


Good point Goetzjam, "I don't want them to spend my money on pointless stuff to please a buff of crybabies, which has never been their line, and I am supporting their line by donating".
Note that some suggestions where not that bad ( a few, really ) and that I agreed with some elements suggested by other @"randomize the lab more" for example.

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The_Reporter wrote:

No. YOU point it out.

If you're going to interject opinion and accusation, come armed with PROOF, or buzz off. :)

Notice that the two usual suspects don't even try to answer the question, they continue with the vague statements and then they answer something their minds thought the question was.

How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience?

answer no1 : it has been answered many times tell TD to point it in the recent podcast

answer no2 : it has been answered many times but your refuse to accept it.

Interesting not only great minds think alike but the opposite as well.


raics on the other hand ofcourse doesnt mind an alternative cause it would literally have no downside and he knows it. But then goes and points out something irrelevant with the question while trying to make it seem it is.

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raics wrote:

It's just that asking for one is unrealistic, not like suggesting, say, a Buster Sword skin mtx, that would be certain profit considering how iconic the item is and the (relatively) low amount of labor it would take. In a nutshell, I'm not asking for one because
1) I don't need it.
2) I couldn't guarantee the lab alternative would pay off and it isn't a trivial thing to ask. Could you still ask them to do it if we imagine it was your responsibility and you had to cover the cost difference out of your own pocket?

Already mentioned this, but I could back a suggestion for an alternative ascending method if it included a whole new set of ascendancies, that would be good shit and fully marketable. The trouble with that is it wouldn't solve your problem.

Unrealistic? If it was unrealistic GGG wouldn't have toned down normal and cruel and merci lab THAT much as they have done in beta as various players claim. If it was unrealistic GGG wouldnt have made the lab manifesto (even if it says more or less nothing of importance regarding changes). If it was unrealistic GGG wouldnt have published the almost regretful lab powerpoint saying "The Labyrinth isn't universally beloved content and there are things we'd do differently knowing what we know now, but the lessons we learned while making it were still very important going forward."-Dan and Josiah. If it was unrealistic there wouldnt have been lab threads popping out every once in a while.

See the suggestion i made in the post above you, i suggested GGG to either tell publicly what it would cost for a AP reallocation or make mtx to aid to the cost. I even asked two-three months ago support to become a divination card/unique item supporter if only one of the three ideas i gave them was able to been implemented, their answer? "buy first the ability to design those and then we talk if they are acceptable designs" - ofcourse i flipped them the middle finger.

Or you mean to tell me that adding the divination card or prophecy or the ascendancy orb alternative in the op would cost them more than 90 minutes of work? Its almost sad that Chris said they dont want to water down the content by implementing new methods while they did indeed watered down lab by making them easier (less trap dmg, less boss dmg, even three less trials) THAT IS WATERING DOWN mr. Chris Wilson, adding new methods and alternatives is ENHANCING the experience.

So everything that are not your expectations are irrealistic I guess heh ?

And everything ( even perfectly relevant things, that Raics pointed out ) that is not convenient to you is instantly dissmised and classified as 'irrelevant' ?

lol, your expectations are really off, but you are still doing the same thing, kind of predictable.



And if you think that the whole design, impact-measuring process + testing involved in creating a divination card is only 90 minutes, you're wayyy off, completely mistaking.



Making mtx to help the cost ? Do you even understand how stupid that is ?
If they can make nex mtx to get some money, they will spend it in something that deem useful, they don't need some silly excuse @"we need money to stop the crying of the lab-hating minority in the forums" to make Mtx ....

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Regulator wrote:

Or you mean to tell me that adding the divination card or prophecy or the ascendancy orb alternative in the op would cost them more than 90 minutes of work?

It was clearly stated above I don't want something I could do myself if they let me in the game code. Call me an elitist but I want them to try keeping a certain level of effort in the content they release, even if it sometimes sucks I like to see them at least trying to make something good.

You know, a fair bit of suggestions for an alternative would make the ascending process fully skippable or significantly easier. I prefer it when people just come right out and say they want their points for free.

But yeah, I think an alternative would be unrealistic. They will probably tweak the lab some more in future based on feedback, adjusting the existing content is expected but I don't think they will ever make it fully skippable or provide an easier alternative.

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Fruz wrote:

So everything that are not your expectations are irrealistic I guess heh ?

And everything ( even perfectly relevant things, that Raics pointed out ) that is not convenient to you is instantly dissmised and classified as 'irrelevant' ?

lol, your expectations are really off, but you are still doing the same thing, kind of predictable.



And if you think that the whole design, impact-measuring process + testing involved in creating a divination card is only 90 minutes, you're wayyy off, completely mistaking.



Making mtx to help the cost ? Do you even understand how stupid that is ?
If they can make nex mtx to get some money, they will spend it in something that deem useful, they don't need some silly excuse @"we need money to stop the crying of the lab-hating minority in the forums" to make Mtx ....

WHo cares what something costs the game sucks for many of us in its current incarnation. Its not our job to fix it. It's not our job to manage someone else's budget. Just fix the damn thing.

Its like someone took a dump in your house and is trying to explain why he felt the need to do it. Clean the thing up. I want my living room back that you turned into a bathroom.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

WHo cares what something costs the game sucks for many of us in its current incarnation. Its not our job to fix it. It's not our job to manage someone else's budget. Just fix the damn thing.

Our job isn't to badger them about something they can't fit in their budget or development plan either. We don't really have a job, we can play the game if we want to, we can buy something if we liked it and we can tell them what we liked about it or not and why, that about sums it up.

By terms of use we all agreed to, it isn't your house or your carpet, strictly speaking we aren't even renting it, a tenant has certain rights and obligations and we don't have either, that's how f2p games work.