SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Zalhan2 wrote:

The makers of the Yogo thought it was a good car and defended it to the bitter end.

All you prove is that sometimes it can be wrong to defend something. Doesn't mean it is here.

Fact of the matter is, the game is already here, Lab is here, AP are in place, Izaro is waiting for you.
It is up to YOU to convince ME that it should be any different, if you want me to agree with you. You obviously haven't done a very good job if we're on page 524 and I'm still defending the Lab the way it is.

I'm totally fine if it stays like this forever. That's the point I'm defending. So please, keep coming with the bad analogies, meaningless comparisons, baseless assumptions and made up numbers and get comfy, it'll be a long road still.

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Xavathos wrote:

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

The makers of the Yogo thought it was a good car and defended it to the bitter end.

All you prove is that sometimes it can be wrong to defend something. Doesn't mean it is here.

Fact of the matter is, the game is already here, Lab is here, AP are in place, Izaro is waiting for you.
It is up to YOU to convince ME that it should be any different, if you want me to agree with you. You obviously haven't done a very good job if we're on page 524 and I'm still defending the Lab the way it is.

I'm totally fine if it stays like this forever. That's the point I'm defending. So please, keep coming with the bad analogies, meaningless comparisons, baseless assumptions and made up numbers and get comfy, it'll be a long road still.

Actually I don't give a crap if you like it or not, why should I?

All I know is many people (that are not you) dislike it enough to quit over it. Even if I liked the game and peed on myself in joy every time I ran it, I would not have the opinion all that matters is me, others matter too.

I would realize a large group of people dislike out of the norm content and maybe despite my love of it, they should enjoy the game too not be forced to have retarded leveling progression because of my desires.

When you cock block people with controversial content everyone loses.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

"

Zalhan2 wrote:

The makers of the Yogo thought it was a good car and defended it to the bitter end.

All you prove is that sometimes it can be wrong to defend something. Doesn't mean it is here.

Fact of the matter is, the game is already here, Lab is here, AP are in place, Izaro is waiting for you.
It is up to YOU to convince ME that it should be any different, if you want me to agree with you. You obviously haven't done a very good job if we're on page 524 and I'm still defending the Lab the way it is.

I'm totally fine if it stays like this forever. That's the point I'm defending. So please, keep coming with the bad analogies, meaningless comparisons, baseless assumptions and made up numbers and get comfy, it'll be a long road still.

Actually I don't give a crap if you like it or not, why should I?

All I know is many people (that are not you) dislike it enough to quit over it. Even if I liked the game and peed on myself in joy every time I ran it, I would not have the opinion all that matters is me, others matter too.

I would realize a large group of people dislike out of the norm content and maybe despite my love of it, they should enjoy the game too not be forced to have retarded leveling progression because of my desires.

When you cock block people with controversial content everyone loses.

Well sure. But what you fail to realize is that I'm not generalizing. I'm just giving you my opinion and you choose to bash me for it. You're the one here who's claiming you have some massive numbers backing you and I should bow down in awe and despair.

Get real. The Lab is still the same and I think that's good. Deal with it.

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Nishrek wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

What is egoistic about you, is the fact that you want to change the game because you don't care about its roleplay

Nice that you do know better than me what I do care for

And now you didn't say that, OF COURSE.

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Nishrek wrote:

If I want to focus on Role Play I will play Pillars Of Eternity (or even better D&D with some friends), not Path of Exile.

<=> you don't play path of exile to focus on role play
<=> you would likely play it even if there was close to no roleplay <=> you don't care.

Not surprised.

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Nishrek wrote:

Because lab contains all roleplay aspects in PoE, sure. Without lab there will be no roleplay elements in PoE...
Talk about fallacies

Fallacies ?
You mean like trying to put your words in other's mouths like you just did there ?
That's a very good example, thank you.

And now throwing a completely irrelevant magical phenomenon, from a fantasy world where magic is everywhere, including summoning.
Talking about fallacies again, sigh ...


You were trying to claim that PoE was Arcade because of Prince of Persia's inspiration.
This is a fallacy, period.
If you don't know how to use words, just don't, that will probably be better for everyone here.

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Nishrek wrote:

Statistics is a branch of mathematics dealing with the collection, analysis, interpretation, presentation, and organization of data

In case you didn't know :
You have no data from which you can make anything remotely close to statistics regarding to PoE and the lab.
You know who do ?
GGG, and that's it.

But you do not.

You're not getting it. I did deal with it, for now.
I am not protesting anything, it's about fun. If the game is fun I will play it.

In it's current form it's not fun. Maybe the expansion will change that. I doubt it though. I will try hit the lab and possibly quit. The new content would have to be really good to make me waste my time with teribad content.

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Fruz wrote:

"

Nishrek wrote:

If I want to focus on Role Play I will play Pillars Of Eternity (or even better D&D with some friends), not Path of Exile.

<=> you don't play path of exile to focus on role play
<=> you would likely play it even if there was close to no roleplay <=> you don't care.

You do understand the difference between "I do not consider roleplaying as the main focus of PoE" and "I totally do not care about lore in PoE"?
No? Not surprised.

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Fruz wrote:

Fallacies ?
You mean like trying to put your words in other's mouths like you just did there ?
That's a very good example, thank you.

Yes, like your fallacy "I know better than you what you think"

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Fruz wrote:

You were trying to claim that PoE was Arcade because of Prince of Persia's inspiration.

Arcade games, platform games. Synonyms in this context. If you can grasp this, it is your problem.
Devote some time, and learn reading comprehension finally one day.

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Fruz wrote:

If you don't know how to use words, just don't, that will probably be better for everyone here.

Great advice. Maybe you should use it.

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Xavathos wrote:

Fair enough. Lore alone is indeed no excuse to not fix something that is broken. You're right on that.

The argument, however, remains whether or not the Lab is even broken to begin with.
I argue that it's not, therefor, to me, I'd rather not see the lore changed in order to fix something that isn't broken. (in my eyes)

I hope you see where I'm coming from now.

Exactly!

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Nishrek wrote:

[...]

You do understand that you wanting the lab removing and screw the lore (trying to show that you cared about it somehow, but throwing "ideas" that would be terrible with it, for obvious reasons that have been pointed) is not caring about the lore ?

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Nishrek wrote:

Arcade games, platform games. Synonyms in this context. If you can grasp this, it is your problem.
Devote some time, and learn reading comprehension finally one day.

To keep the same database as a reference, do you know what comes out if you research "platform" in the "arcade" wikipedia page ?
Let me help you : nothing.

Arcade game does not imply platformer, at all.
There are some arcade games that are platformer, but reaching the conclusion that arcade <=> platformer is basically falling into the politician's fallacy here.

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Xavathos wrote:

Fair enough. Lore alone is indeed no excuse to not fix something that is broken. You're right on that.

Oh, the lore could be a reason to not change to a content that is working as intended, but still has some slight problems, the lore could definitely justify not doing silly band-aids, given that it isn't a big deal anyway.

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Fruz wrote:

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Nishrek wrote:

[...]

You do understand that you wanting the lab removing and screw the lore (trying to show that you cared about it somehow, but throwing "ideas" that would be terrible with it, for obvious reasons that have been pointed) is not caring about the lore ?

"

Nishrek wrote:

Arcade games, platform games. Synonyms in this context. If you can grasp this, it is your problem.
Devote some time, and learn reading comprehension finally one day.

To keep the same database as a reference, do you know what comes out if you research "platform" in the "arcade" wikipedia page ?
Let me help you : nothing.

Arcade game does not imply platformer, at all.
There are some arcade games that are platformer, but reaching the conclusion that arcade <=> platformer is basically falling into the politician's fallacy here.

"

Xavathos wrote:

Fair enough. Lore alone is indeed no excuse to not fix something that is broken. You're right on that.

Oh, the lore could be a reason to not change to a content that is working as intended, but still has some slight problems, the lore could definitely justify not doing silly band-aids, given that it isn't a big deal anyway.

Actually the term platform game has been around since loderunner. When did we leave the POE forums and go to the Lawyers forums?

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raics wrote:

The thing probably doesn't even have to be liked, it isn't a target content like maps are, maybe it wouldn't even be a good gate if it isn't hated at least a little.

That is an interesting assertion.

There are many so-called power gates which are hated by those who cannot pass them, and liked just fine by those who can. To that extent, your analysis seems correct.

Would you say that is true of the Labyrinth as well? That it is hated only by those who cannot do it, and liked just fine by those who can?

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Actually I don't give a crap if you like it or not, why should I?

All I know is many people (that are not you) dislike it enough to quit over it. Even if I liked the game and peed on myself in joy every time I ran it, I would not have the opinion all that matters is me, others matter too.

I would realize a large group of people dislike out of the norm content and maybe despite my love of it, they should enjoy the game too not be forced to have retarded leveling progression because of my desires.

When you cock block people with controversial content everyone loses.

This is what really matters at the end of the day. I don't have the least doubt in my mind (and I'm sure the marketing folks at GGG don't either) that GGG has lost money as a result of the Lab. ("How much?" is a more difficult question to answer, even by the company itself.) Now, that fact by itself does not necessarily mean that the Lab is a failure or somehow broken. There are plenty of critically lauded projects, often pursued in loyalty to an artist's vision, which have caused a company to lose money.

Since the Labyrinth has received nothing but praise since its release, I think it is safe to say that it is another example of this phenomenon. A brilliant project which is just misunderstood by the masses who insist on not playing a game they don't find fun. Spoiled brats, they are, and it boils my blood that they left the game instead of continuing to play and buy more microtransactions.