SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

A level in a game can take skill, but still have poor level design which a lot of trap layouts do. There were times I have thought "this looks like I should be able to weave and squeeze through all of this junk like a boss, but I know it's not going to happen with how big they are in these tiny corridors", for example.

there is limited set of tiles, and within one-day lab diversity is almost nonexistent.

seems lab rats running labyrinth for cheese are doing better than highly intelligent poe players.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

So your definition of the "Skill Based hardest content in the game"

Well, if it doesn't depend much on your character stats the content technically is skill based. However, as you mentioned already there are also ways to trivialize it, you can buy runs or you can pot through it (though both are less true for uber trials, people get carried less there and there no enemies in trap sections so you run out of charges fast).

So, it's a skill based content with an optional cop-out.

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raics wrote:

Well, if it doesn't depend much on your character stats the content technically is skill based.

Isn't that part i bolded though a fundamental mistake of the lab cause after all in an arpg that's what you do? Increase your stats, get better gear, slaugher higher level enemies, level up, repeat.

But not only this which is beyond stupid, but even that (lab is equally hard for all mentality they pushed when they implemented it) they don't do it right cause some stats simply trivialize the lab. So not only lab shits upon our choices but even that shit is not universally equal to all as they wanted.

The first is a red card, the second a yellow and a technical foul, and we don't even ask for elimination, we ask for equal treatment and respect to the rest that not only feel left out but actually GGG with their choices forced that feeling.

The next might seem too extreme for many : no matter how you see it lab is a big offender to the whole playerbase in so many different levels. You might like it, you might hate it or love it or simply bend your egoism and go through it, lab is a badly implemented content. There is literally no upside besides the extreme loot it offers (sugarcoating at its finest) and the change of gameplay (which isn't even welcomed by all but some definitely appreciate it), and both of them would still be there if the content was truly optional. And the above is nothing else but the raw truth.

I really appreciate GGG devs and the team trying to offer new content even if its experimental, but when that content is forced or alienating then you fail at the implementation, even if the content is perfect in every other aspect. And this thread serves exactly that purpose not to bash and swear to GGG but to show mistakes and ways to improve the experience FOR EVERYONE (yes including even those who farm it and claim its fun), and if anyone took the time to read he would see that some of the suggestions not only help haters but lovers too, most don't even make lab easier to go through or farm they just implement time wasting mechanics to make up for bypassing others without any "watering-down" bullshit i often hear cause its simply not true, watering down is lowering the quality of the content, offering alternative routes and ways to do it is the exact opposite it will enrich the whole experience for all parties.

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Regulator wrote:

Isn't that part i bolded though a fundamental mistake of the lab cause after all in an arpg that's what you do? Increase your stats, get better gear, slaugher higher level enemies, level up, repeat.

Isn't it pretty much the same as scaling enemies to your level? In some action RPGs you upgrade your char to get stronger than current content so you can move on to the more difficult one, in others you do it to keep up with the content that scales up on its own. A good example for the latter are elder scrolls games, it's easy to have the content overtake you if you aren't careful with your char.

Mentioned it already, but I don't agree the lab 'shits upon certain choices', it does favor certain ones but it doesn't really shit on anything except vaal builds, and those have a backup skill anyway.

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The_Reporter wrote:

No need to learn patterns and positions. Just juice through with autopots with eyes closed. Boom, so skills = no problems.

1. Since dmg is not based on your resistance or characters stats... it is skill based.

2. Since like you said, it is so easy and you can do it eyes closed, why whining?


xDDDDD so pityful

You not agreeing to it doesnt make it less of a truth, the same applies to those who dont want or simply dont see it as it is. I dint thought i have to go back to basics with you raics.

250% increased life, 150% increased armour vs 150%increased life no armour (same example with just life investment doesnt matter)

Both cases get shit on by (most) traps, but in the first one it doesnt even matter that you have 100% more compared to the other

300% increased ES vs 50% increased es the same

The same applies in most cases to evasion, armour, block, dodge investment, isnt that shitting on character choices then what is? Not only it renders your choices obsolete but your gear too. It absolutely shits on those things, AND THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN ARPG.

But even that it doesnt do it equally: regen trivializes it, endurance charges dmg reduction still applies, damage is not affected, movement speed the same.

In an alternative universe where getting hit by traps meant instant death what would your opinion be? At least that would be shitting on everything equally wouldn't it? And it would be more true to the inspiration of that lab that are arcade games, cause lab aint an arpg thats for sure. In an alternative universe movement speed inside lab was zero, what would your opinion be?

Content scaling with you aint the same with content ignoring your character choices and passive plus gear investment, dont get confused.

Its just the way it is unfortunately, and its so ironical that such a gameplay that is reminiscent of the golden age of arcade games (which i still enjoy when i want to play them when they are not forced upon me when i play a strategy or an arpg or racer or a point&click adventure (im looking at you Leisure suit Larry: magna cum laude)) is the sole prerequisite to continue advancing your character in the most arpg way possible. Sad also.

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Regulator wrote:

You not agreeing to it doesnt make it less of a truth

Of course, you say it, so it has to be the truth !

Ahhh back with that propaganda "we".
(nop, didn't miss it obviously)


And no, it's not in "most" cases.
Let's see what traps we have :
- roombas
- Spinning blades
- saw blades
- spike traps
- darts
- uber traps
- burning floor
- giant saw that falls on your face

Among those 8 traps, 5 can be mitigated / avoided.
-> Most of the traps can be mitigated.



Your "truth" was funny the first time maybe (just kidding, it wasn't actually).
But it has been 476 pages and you keep spreading the same BS still .....

We just seem to interpret being 'shat on' differently, if an armor build was unable to do lab because it's an armor build I'd say it was being shat on, but otherwise no.

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Regulator wrote:

Its just the way it is unfortunately, and its so ironical that such a gameplay that is reminiscent of the golden age of arcade games (which i still enjoy when i want to play them when they are not forced upon me when i play a strategy or an arpg or racer or a point&click adventure (im looking at you Leisure suit Larry: magna cum laude)) is the sole prerequisite to continue advancing your character in the most arpg way possible. Sad also.

I, myself, am finding the trading requirement much more invading to the traditional aRPG experience. And lab is very similar to trading, you aren't strictly required to do it, but it's very much needed if you want to do more interesting builds or max your power.

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raics wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

Isn't that part i bolded though a fundamental mistake of the lab cause after all in an arpg that's what you do? Increase your stats, get better gear, slaugher higher level enemies, level up, repeat.

Isn't it pretty much the same as scaling enemies to your level? In some action RPGs you upgrade your char to get stronger than current content so you can move on to the more difficult one, in others you do it to keep up with the content that scales up on its own. A good example for the latter are elder scrolls games, it's easy to have the content overtake you if you aren't careful with your char.

Mentioned it already, but I don't agree the lab 'shits upon certain choices', it does favor certain ones but it doesn't really shit on anything except vaal builds, and those have a backup skill anyway.

WOW added damage scaling for 1 day then pulled it out because the player base said it was stupid and unlike GGG they respond to player responses to content.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

unlike GGG they respond to player responses to content.

They certainly do, and the game is ass now. It isn't the only one, we can probably make a fairly sizeable list of games where devs would be better off if they stuck to their guns a bit more. Off the top of my head, we got HoN and D3 as a good example, in one of them devs listened to the elites too much and in other one to the masses.