SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

I´ve seen Videos where People just run through Traps as if they were not there, so I made a Lab Runner myself and tested it.
Guess what...
Nearly all of your Points pro Traps become irrelevant.

The Traps and the Mechanics will always stay the same, if you got a Lab Runner it doesn´t matter at all where they are, how many and in what Combination they exist.

In the End you got a Labyrinth with very good Loot / Profit at the End and that is what you Guys like, not the Traps, not the Mechanics because they are pi** easy with a special Char.

TLDR : if a content can be cheesed, it's definitely shit.
Of course.


Feeling the need to build a "lab runner" might give us some clues of how good you are at the lab to begin with actually.
No need for a particular build to run the lab, at all.

90 % of my time I play the Hardcore Leagues, i Twink alot and haven´t died to Traps yet.
Am I good at Lab? Average I would say.

I felt the need to try a Lab runner so I can participate better in this Discussion and why I think the Ascendancy Points should be removed from the Lab or Traps.

With the Lab Runner I see what I think most of the Lab Lovers like about it.
Easy, fast and steady Profits and that is ok.
What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

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Shredzilly wrote:

90 % of my time I play the Hardcore Leagues, i Twink alot and haven´t died to Traps yet.
Am I good at Lab? Average I would say.

I felt the need to try a Lab runner so I can participate better in this Discussion and why I think the Ascendancy Points should be removed from the Lab or Traps.

With the Lab Runner I see what I think most of the Lab Lovers like about it.
Easy, fast and steady Profits and that is ok.
What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

The difference would be watering down the content until "everyone" is ok with it, which is something Chris SPECIFICALLY said they don't want to do.


These lab haters want to twist what Chris said into "we have no issues changing the lab", except that comes with a caveat of if it was necessary, we are sitting at what nearly 9 months or so since the first lab? If it was anywhere near the level of issue that demanded change we would be seeing threads about this daily on reddit.

Hell they don't really even make trade changes, despite that being a almost daily shitpost level topic on reddit.


But hey you asked for the "proof" and refused to watch the video, Chris said then and he will say it again if necessary, there are no plans to change how you get AC points.


If I had to suspect we "technically" will see change to the lab\ac, with the addition of another act, but it will probably be 3-3-2 instead of 2-2-2-2, with normal-merciless both offering 3 and the uber lab offering 2. Not sure how else they would keep the same amount of points, with less difficulties.

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Shredzilly wrote:

What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

I think that it is wonderful that people enjoy labyrinth whether it is for traps or purely for rewards. This is a game that is intended for enjoyment after all. GGG will eventually make ascendancy points available outside labyrinth because they want to make the game more successful. This is not a win-lose proposition. This is a win-win proposition for everyone with the only possible exception being less profit with carries. But, even for that, a carry is primarily for the boss fight and rest assured that there will always be a boss fight and new carry opportunities no matter what happens and with a more successful game hopefully it would mean more people playing with more potential customers for the carriers.

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Shredzilly wrote:

Most Builds that are not specifically designed to run the Lab have a hard time doing it, because of the Mechanics.
[...]
That is why I ask if anybody likes this die-in-half-a-Second-Mechanics and if so why.

No, they have a hard time if the player sucks, which is completely different.
The second part proves how little you actually know about the lab, and you seem to just be salty because you apparently cannot do it properly.

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

Most Builds that are not specifically designed to run the Lab have a hard time doing it, because of the Mechanics.
[...]
That is why I ask if anybody likes this die-in-half-a-Second-Mechanics and if so why.

No, they have a hard time if the player sucks, which is completely different.
The second part proves how little you actually know about the lab, and you seem to just be salty because you apparently cannot do it properly.

@Fruz
I am not salty I try to give and get Feedback so the Game might change to what I think is for the better.

I´m sorry, my bad, if you have a hard time understanding what I mean that´s on me, I try to rephrase my second Part, so you might get it..
" That is why I ask if anybody likes the Mechanics of Traps, that will kill you in half a second if you stand still or have a DC or something similiar, regardless your Level and Difficultiy you are playing on "

Besides that, I have run round about 20 Chars through the Lab and never died to a Trap.
Is that enough to your Standards on runnning the Lab properly ?

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Shredzilly wrote:

Besides that, I have run round about 20 Chars through the Lab and never died to a Trap.Is that enough to your Standards on runnning the Lab properly ?

I doubt it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#Logical_fallacy

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goetzjam wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

90 % of my time I play the Hardcore Leagues, i Twink alot and haven´t died to Traps yet.
Am I good at Lab? Average I would say.

I felt the need to try a Lab runner so I can participate better in this Discussion and why I think the Ascendancy Points should be removed from the Lab or Traps.

With the Lab Runner I see what I think most of the Lab Lovers like about it.
Easy, fast and steady Profits and that is ok.
What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

The difference would be watering down the content until "everyone" is ok with it, which is something Chris SPECIFICALLY said they don't want to do.


These lab haters want to twist what Chris said into "we have no issues changing the lab", except that comes with a caveat of if it was necessary, we are sitting at what nearly 9 months or so since the first lab? If it was anywhere near the level of issue that demanded change we would be seeing threads about this daily on reddit.

Hell they don't really even make trade changes, despite that being a almost daily shitpost level topic on reddit.


But hey you asked for the "proof" and refused to watch the video, Chris said then and he will say it again if necessary, there are no plans to change how you get AC points.


If I had to suspect we "technically" will see change to the lab\ac, with the addition of another act, but it will probably be 3-3-2 instead of 2-2-2-2, with normal-merciless both offering 3 and the uber lab offering 2. Not sure how else they would keep the same amount of points, with less difficulties.

@Goetzjam

You name it watering down the Content, I name it making more People happy, while having the SAME Content + another Way to get Ascendancies.
The Lab can stay as it is, so you can still enjoy it, get your Ascendancy Points there and be happy.
By offering a different Way to obtain Ascendancies all the Lab Haters would be happy to.
Win / Win , except you just like that the Ascendancies are gated behind the Lab so you are not able to carry Folks for Dough through it.

And about the Argument about Changes won´t happen because Chris said something about it or whatnot...they refused to implement Perma-Loot for a loooong time.. but changed it at last and I haven´t seen a Post about how bad that Decision was, everybody likes it now and you can still change it to timed or free for all.

About the Trade changes not beeing implemented : After all this Years and seeing how GGG implements new Stuff and tries to fix old Issues and so on I honestly think that they are not capable of doing it technically properly.
The Armour Projectile Bug is there like forever, the Usability of this Game is mediocre at best, the Balance Team is out of Balance itself....

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Shredzilly wrote:

@Goetzjam

You name it watering down the Content, I name it making more People happy, while having the SAME Content + another Way to get Ascendancies.
The Lab can stay as it is, so you can still enjoy it, get your Ascendancy Points there and be happy.
By offering a different Way to obtain Ascendancies all the Lab Haters would be happy to.
Win / Win , except you just like that the Ascendancies are gated behind the Lab so you are not able to carry Folks for Dough through it.

And about the Argument about Changes won´t happen because Chris said something about it or whatnot...they refused to implement Perma-Loot for a loooong time.. but changed it at last and I haven´t seen a Post about how bad that Decision was, everybody like it now and you can still change it to timed or free for all.

About the Trade changes not beeing implemented : After all this Years and seeing how GGG implements new Stuff and tries to fix old Issues and so on I honestly think that they are not capable of doing it technically properly.
The Armour Projectile Bug is there like forever, the Usability of this Game is mediocre at best, the Balance Team is out of Balance itself....

Except it doesn't work like that, lab haters will push further and further until the easiest and "best" way to get AC is via this alternative way, instead of the lab, like it was designed.


Perm loot is a vastly different issue, it wasn't about the content, it was about the negative aspect that it created between party members in a game designed around selling mtx's that make your character look better.

I knew someone would bring up perm-loot and compare it to "well GGG can change", yes they can but only if they realize what they did is wrong or detrimental, in which case of divisive content isn't the same as a divisive looting aspect. Poe's content is loot, but the allocation methods aren't anywhere near the same as actual game content, like the lab.


I won't go into detail (because I already have previously on this topic), but quite a few people that dislike the lab have this notion that they tried it once and they don't like it, or they tried it a couple of times and it just doesnt fit. People said the same thing about act 4, people will say the same thing about act 5, but the stubbornness of these players that try and give feedback that they have an issue with something, but hardly have the experience to back it up.


Even one of the people I respect the most in this game I don't see eye to eye on 2 key issues, trading and the lab. He feels that trading should just be an AH and he rather slay things then interact with item trades, which is fine for games that don't really revolve around an economy as much or MMOs that have other main focuses instead of just items, but items are what enable or allow builds to function.

He dislikes the lab for similar reasons as people that have posted in this, it ignores most defensive abilities (he builds all of his characters to live first and foremost) and the trap gameplay is different. Different doesn't mean bad, different just means you need to play in such a way that is different from the core game experience, which is a breath of fresh air for people as well.

We somewhat agree on masters, but disagree on why. I think masters just were an excuse to get rid of eternals and a high increase in power creep, he doesn't like masters because it removes a key element of finding loot or making it.


Regardless the largest issue in this game right now IMO is power creep and the inability to create anything new without adding additional power. It is a hard task without needing to rebalance things along the way, we pretty much see absolutely no passive tree changes and very little AC tree changes now, IMO thats not a good thing.


I want the game to be the best version it can be and it can't be that if GGG has to duplicate content in order to satisfy people complaining.