SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Shredzilly wrote:

What I read is : I like to make Profit. I like that People hate the Lab, so I can make a special Build to get even more Profit when I carry People through it.

People hating the Lab also makes the Lab more profitable indirectly, since fewer people are running it. So, less inflation.

People hating the Lab also makes the Lab more profitable directly (MUCH more profitable), since if everyone were running it GGG would not have bumped the rewards to entice people and would have probably nerfed the rewards instead.

I suspect that these two things, in addition to the reason you give, are the #1 source of opponents of fixing the Lab so it is enjoyable for everyone (or removing the Ascendancy point from it, for that matter). There are people who genuinely enjoy the Labyrinth's gameplay per se, but I've seen fewer than five forum posters who have made that claim. Maybe three or four. I've seen dozens of posters announcing that they like the Labyrinth due to its rewards, and many dozens (at least 100) posters announcing that they hate the Labyrinth (for varying reasons). These statistics prove nothing, but the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly indicates that Lab fans enjoy its profits, not its gameplay.

And on that note, traps are FAR from the Labyrinth's only problem. There is a difference between content that is fun to PLAY and content that is fun to FINISH, and the Lab quite decisively fits into the latter category.

To summarize: more lab haters --> more profit for lab lovers. Everyone knows it is true. But it is a piss-poor reason not to make the Lab fun to PLAY.

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

I´ve seen Videos where People just run through Traps as if they were not there, so I made a Lab Runner myself and tested it.
Guess what...
Nearly all of your Points pro Traps become irrelevant.

The Traps and the Mechanics will always stay the same, if you got a Lab Runner it doesn´t matter at all where they are, how many and in what Combination they exist.

In the End you got a Labyrinth with very good Loot / Profit at the End and that is what you Guys like, not the Traps, not the Mechanics because they are pi** easy with a special Char.

TLDR : if a content can be cheesed, it's definitely shit.
Of course.


Feeling the need to build a "lab runner" might give us some clues of how good you are at the lab to begin with actually.
No need for a particular build to run the lab, at all.

90 % of my time I play the Hardcore Leagues, i Twink alot and haven´t died to Traps yet.
Am I good at Lab? Average I would say.

I felt the need to try a Lab runner so I can participate better in this Discussion and why I think the Ascendancy Points should be removed from the Lab or Traps.

With the Lab Runner I see what I think most of the Lab Lovers like about it.
Easy, fast and steady Profits and that is ok.
What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

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Shredzilly wrote:

90 % of my time I play the Hardcore Leagues, i Twink alot and haven´t died to Traps yet.
Am I good at Lab? Average I would say.

I felt the need to try a Lab runner so I can participate better in this Discussion and why I think the Ascendancy Points should be removed from the Lab or Traps.

With the Lab Runner I see what I think most of the Lab Lovers like about it.
Easy, fast and steady Profits and that is ok.
What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

The difference would be watering down the content until "everyone" is ok with it, which is something Chris SPECIFICALLY said they don't want to do.


These lab haters want to twist what Chris said into "we have no issues changing the lab", except that comes with a caveat of if it was necessary, we are sitting at what nearly 9 months or so since the first lab? If it was anywhere near the level of issue that demanded change we would be seeing threads about this daily on reddit.

Hell they don't really even make trade changes, despite that being a almost daily shitpost level topic on reddit.


But hey you asked for the "proof" and refused to watch the video, Chris said then and he will say it again if necessary, there are no plans to change how you get AC points.


If I had to suspect we "technically" will see change to the lab\ac, with the addition of another act, but it will probably be 3-3-2 instead of 2-2-2-2, with normal-merciless both offering 3 and the uber lab offering 2. Not sure how else they would keep the same amount of points, with less difficulties.

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Shredzilly wrote:

What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

I think that it is wonderful that people enjoy labyrinth whether it is for traps or purely for rewards. This is a game that is intended for enjoyment after all. GGG will eventually make ascendancy points available outside labyrinth because they want to make the game more successful. This is not a win-lose proposition. This is a win-win proposition for everyone with the only possible exception being less profit with carries. But, even for that, a carry is primarily for the boss fight and rest assured that there will always be a boss fight and new carry opportunities no matter what happens and with a more successful game hopefully it would mean more people playing with more potential customers for the carriers.

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Shredzilly wrote:

Most Builds that are not specifically designed to run the Lab have a hard time doing it, because of the Mechanics.
[...]
That is why I ask if anybody likes this die-in-half-a-Second-Mechanics and if so why.

No, they have a hard time if the player sucks, which is completely different.
The second part proves how little you actually know about the lab, and you seem to just be salty because you apparently cannot do it properly.

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

Most Builds that are not specifically designed to run the Lab have a hard time doing it, because of the Mechanics.
[...]
That is why I ask if anybody likes this die-in-half-a-Second-Mechanics and if so why.

No, they have a hard time if the player sucks, which is completely different.
The second part proves how little you actually know about the lab, and you seem to just be salty because you apparently cannot do it properly.

@Fruz
I am not salty I try to give and get Feedback so the Game might change to what I think is for the better.

I´m sorry, my bad, if you have a hard time understanding what I mean that´s on me, I try to rephrase my second Part, so you might get it..
" That is why I ask if anybody likes the Mechanics of Traps, that will kill you in half a second if you stand still or have a DC or something similiar, regardless your Level and Difficultiy you are playing on "

Besides that, I have run round about 20 Chars through the Lab and never died to a Trap.
Is that enough to your Standards on runnning the Lab properly ?

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Shredzilly wrote:

Besides that, I have run round about 20 Chars through the Lab and never died to a Trap.Is that enough to your Standards on runnning the Lab properly ?

I doubt it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#Logical_fallacy

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goetzjam wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

90 % of my time I play the Hardcore Leagues, i Twink alot and haven´t died to Traps yet.
Am I good at Lab? Average I would say.

I felt the need to try a Lab runner so I can participate better in this Discussion and why I think the Ascendancy Points should be removed from the Lab or Traps.

With the Lab Runner I see what I think most of the Lab Lovers like about it.
Easy, fast and steady Profits and that is ok.
What I yet fail to understand is why the Ascendancy Points have to be gated behind the Traps etc.
What Difference would it make that others get Ascendancies in a different Way?
Changing it would only hurt the People who make a Profit with Carries.

The difference would be watering down the content until "everyone" is ok with it, which is something Chris SPECIFICALLY said they don't want to do.


These lab haters want to twist what Chris said into "we have no issues changing the lab", except that comes with a caveat of if it was necessary, we are sitting at what nearly 9 months or so since the first lab? If it was anywhere near the level of issue that demanded change we would be seeing threads about this daily on reddit.

Hell they don't really even make trade changes, despite that being a almost daily shitpost level topic on reddit.


But hey you asked for the "proof" and refused to watch the video, Chris said then and he will say it again if necessary, there are no plans to change how you get AC points.


If I had to suspect we "technically" will see change to the lab\ac, with the addition of another act, but it will probably be 3-3-2 instead of 2-2-2-2, with normal-merciless both offering 3 and the uber lab offering 2. Not sure how else they would keep the same amount of points, with less difficulties.

@Goetzjam

You name it watering down the Content, I name it making more People happy, while having the SAME Content + another Way to get Ascendancies.
The Lab can stay as it is, so you can still enjoy it, get your Ascendancy Points there and be happy.
By offering a different Way to obtain Ascendancies all the Lab Haters would be happy to.
Win / Win , except you just like that the Ascendancies are gated behind the Lab so you are not able to carry Folks for Dough through it.

And about the Argument about Changes won´t happen because Chris said something about it or whatnot...they refused to implement Perma-Loot for a loooong time.. but changed it at last and I haven´t seen a Post about how bad that Decision was, everybody likes it now and you can still change it to timed or free for all.

About the Trade changes not beeing implemented : After all this Years and seeing how GGG implements new Stuff and tries to fix old Issues and so on I honestly think that they are not capable of doing it technically properly.
The Armour Projectile Bug is there like forever, the Usability of this Game is mediocre at best, the Balance Team is out of Balance itself....