SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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cipher_nemo wrote:

Posting my opinion on the subject in a long thread of arguments and attacks...

I'm happy the way GGG has implemented the lab. I don't support the OP's opinion.
(and that opinion is way back from March, even before uber lab)

Correction:

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Last edited by Regulator on August 24, 2016 3:26 AM

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Jgizle wrote:

Presumably uber lab since it is not easy to out level as the story ones are.

Lets remove the only lab that provides a true and consistent challenge because people can't get it easily.



Has to be IMO the most "casual" idea.

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Jgizle wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

There is only 1 solution provided in OP to lab itself.

I suspect you didn't bother to click on any of the "SHOW" buttons, or didn't realize they could be clicked.

I suspect you didn't actually read what those say, or more than 1 line from my post. Shame. Reading comprehension was not a strong suit with this one

Mm-hm.

Looks like my statements about you were right from the very start. (And no one is surprised.)

I only care about logic, not trading insults, so I'm not going to bother with you anymore.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

.. and yes, it's like adding hardcore mode in leagues that are not supposed to be hardcore.

I'll just add my say to all of this..

As a casual player, I actually like the lab, it's different and it's a fun maze puzzle to be solved.
I don't mind that the ascendancy points are gated in the lab.

Having said that, there is one major gripe I have with it.

There are reasons why some of the players can't do HC. I for one have a shit internet so HC is no-no for me, same as multiplayer. When so many things are happening on the screen my poor and shitty connection cannot handle it, so it lags, and so I die. This is not GGG's fault and it's okay since I can play standard, still enjoy the content and progress even if every now and then I die. That is the problem of the lab for me, the design of the lab to make it one go without dying is like a mini HC inside standard. Add that Izaro is near impossible to kill at that level, Sarn Act3, after you finished all the required Trials of Ascendancy. I actually liked the different mechanics that an Izaro fight has, its just it makes him so hard to deal with at that level. I would like to have another crack at him but to repeat everything again knowing how hard it was.. man. And as a casual player who can only devout a few hours in a day to play, it becomes frustrating after several tries.

My suggestion is to put a temporary save point location after the first two Izaro fight, so as not to repeat the whole thing again and again and again. This temporary save point will last only for the active instance of the lab, once the instance is gone, the save points are gone. If you die, you are taken to the last save point. And also make Izaro just a bit more doable at that stage, Act3, with the level of character that you have at that point.



My temporary fix for this is to totally ignore lab and get back to it after finishing merciless.
Do normal and cruel because still Izaro merciless is pretty hard at this point.
I'd do him later at much higher level, just to get my Ascendancy points.
I know learn-to-play, begud, blah blah.
I'm a casual player, learning as I go along, almost self found since I don't do much trading because.. well you know trading.

I'm sharing these thoughts cause maybe casual players like me feel the same. And I'd assume that lab content and Izaro are not just for the hard players but for us casuals too. Casuals who would like to enjoy the game's content that GGG provides. You can have your Uber Atziri's, Uber lab, red maps, the four guardians and shaper. I just hope we can have at least Izaro.

It's sad actually. Lab would have been a very nice content with fun mechanics to progress, just that it didn't survive the tediousness, and the impossible boss that goes along with it at that level.

All IMHO.

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The_Reporter wrote:

There's no challenge in the lab. Just tedious and boring. Easily trivialized for a few rubles.

And guess who stands to lose if the Labyrinth is either fixed or no longer forced upon all players?

Yep, that's right. The people who receive those rubles.

And they will fight tooth and nail to make sure this broken content remains in the game, and continues to provide them profts. As will those who prefer GGG's bribes to actual fun and challenging gameplay.

If I were among them, I'd probably try to set up straw men to shoot down. For example, I'd accuse all haters of the Labyrinth of wanting "something for nothing" or of "sucking at the Lab, so git gud" instead of actually admitting that the primary reasons people hate the Lab have nothing to do with difficulty.

Sound familiar, goetz?

Huge lags in lab. This is a huge issue not just in lab but also entire game. This constant poor performance for this game is causing more people to quit than the lab. They better fix this soon. A game can t survive forever with poopoo performance.

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element274 wrote:

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cipher_nemo wrote:

.. and yes, it's like adding hardcore mode in leagues that are not supposed to be hardcore.

And as a casual player who can only devout a few hours in a day to play, it becomes frustrating after several tries.

I find this part to be very indicative of true problem with the game. Rewards are so scarce that even for those playing a few hours a day its not enough to experience any sort of real progress. This causes the average amount of time played by even your most casual players to increase. This is not good. Commit a few hours everyday to anything else and you will be an expert in that subject before long.

This is why the lab defenders will fight tooth and nail to keep any changes from happening. They have gone for so long playing this game with its shit drop rates and its overemphasis on economy, that now that there finally exists something somewhat rewarding, they dont want that to be taken from them. I dont blame them.

I have been thinking about a solution to this for a while now and i think ive figured it out.

The lab hate stems from how rewarding it is for those people who like the content and choose to build around it. There is nothing of the same for those who like to just slay thousands of mobs per hour. Normal drops for any other content is complete shit but if you make this specific set of builds and use these specific mechanics there are mountains of 19q gems and loads of currency and maps just waiting for you.

My solution is to de-shit the rest of the drop rates throughout the game. Basically, make it a real choice, because once you get your points, if your build can farm Izzaro, the whole rest of the games drops are absolute shit. For the players that dont have the gear or arent playing a build compatible with farming Izzaro, all they get is the shit sandwich, and to top it all off they have to pay those who are being rewarded massively as it already stands, just to access their ascendancy points.

I feel if they incentivized other areas to farm as good as uber lab then no one would do lab.

That being said if it was something just as difficult it would be fine.

For example, maybe improving uber atziri drop rates, and increasing the drop rates of better gear in atziris vault map. Maybe add map strongboxes and diviners strongbixes to atziris vault map.

A build in a new league that can demolish uber lab can easily make 100 ex a day through red maps and divination cards alone. Uber Atziri you need to get lucky with drops and hope for that axe. It is not very rewarding most of the time, while Uber Lab is always rewarding, the enchants are just a bonus for even more profit if you get the good ones.

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Jgizle wrote:

I feel if they incentivized other areas to farm as good as uber lab then no one would do lab.

And what does that tell you about the lab?