SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Turtledove wrote:

Well then, I'll have to say that dung beetles love eating poop. So from that perspective, saying that we shouldn't complain about having to eat a small amount of poop to get to the good meal. Is still not respecting the opinion of beetles that don't like eating poop. If dung beetles have to eat a little bit of decomposed leaves and don't like it but don't complain. It doesn't mean that we have to eat a little bit of poop without complaint. Especially when we didn't used to have to eat any poop at all. Make our meals great again, don't make us eat poop if we don't want to.

You never used to have Ascendancy Classes. If you don't want ascendancy classes, your game hasn't changed, you don't have do lab.

Put it this way. Ascendancy Classes are Ice Cream. Regular classes are meals. You are still completely able to have a delicious meal without having ice cream. But to have the ice cream, you have to do a workout at the gym (the lab). If you can't be arsed doing a workout at a gym, or don't have the physical ability to do a workout at the gym, you don't get ice cream. But you never USED to get ice cream to have a great meal. So why do you bitch that other people are going to the gym and getting icecream as a rewards.

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Gaza wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Well then, I'll have to say that dung beetles love eating poop. So from that perspective, saying that we shouldn't complain about having to eat a small amount of poop to get to the good meal. Is still not respecting the opinion of beetles that don't like eating poop. If dung beetles have to eat a little bit of decomposed leaves and don't like it but don't complain. It doesn't mean that we have to eat a little bit of poop without complaint. Especially when we didn't used to have to eat any poop at all. Make our meals great again, don't make us eat poop if we don't want to.

You never used to have Ascendancy Classes. If you don't want ascendancy classes, your game hasn't changed, you don't have do lab.

Put it this way. Ascendancy Classes are Ice Cream. Regular classes are meals. You are still completely able to have a delicious meal without having ice cream. But to have the ice cream, you have to do a workout at the gym (the lab). If you can't be arsed doing a workout at a gym, or don't have the physical ability to do a workout at the gym, you don't get ice cream. But you never USED to get ice cream to have a great meal. So why do you bitch that other people are going to the gym and getting icecream as a rewards.

This is true. Although GGG has made changes to compensate for the power creep in the latest release and have stated that their road-map includes more such changes so it is becoming less and less of an option to play without the points.

fuck the lab

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Gaza wrote:

You never used to have Ascendancy Classes. If you don't want ascendancy classes, your game hasn't changed, you don't have do lab.

Put it this way. Ascendancy Classes are Ice Cream. Regular classes are meals. You are still completely able to have a delicious meal without having ice cream. But to have the ice cream, you have to do a workout at the gym (the lab). If you can't be arsed doing a workout at a gym, or don't have the physical ability to do a workout at the gym, you don't get ice cream. But you never USED to get ice cream to have a great meal. So why do you bitch that other people are going to the gym and getting icecream as a rewards.

Nice thinking mate well put, now let me burst your bubble.

2.3.0 patch notes

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Chris wrote:

Due to the power creep from Ascendancy, Cruel, Merciless and Map content requires various rebalances. Rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills to higher difficulties, and have applied various corrections to specific monster skills.

-Oak's Brute has been added to The Wetlands. This monster uses an Enrage skill periodically.
Enrage increases attack speed, movement speed and damage for the duration of the enrage.
-Cannibal Fire-eater has been added to The Coast. This monster breathes fire.
-Kraityn's Sentry has been added to Broken Bridge. This monster uses Blast Rain.
-Spectral Swashbuckler has been added to The Ship Graveyard. This monster uses Spectral Throw
-Goatman Fire-raiser has been added to The Climb. This monster uses Magma Orb.
-Each of these monsters has also been added to the pool of random monsters in maps. They usually only spawn alone, or in a pair.
-Blood Elementals that use Gore Earthquake have been added to Maps.
-Some of the Water Elemental packs in Maps now contain ones that use Vortex.
-Some of the Sea Witch packs in Maps now contain ones that use Frostbolt.
-Some of the Ghost Pirate packs in Maps now contain ones that use Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Demon Packs in Maps now contain ones that use Demonic Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Ruined Titan packs in Maps now contain ones that use Earthquake.
-Some of the Goatman Shaman (Lightning) packs in Maps now contain ones that use Orb of Storms.
-Numerical improvements to several monster skills have been made. These are generally buffs to the spells cast by monsters.
-There is now greater monster density in the Core map. The average experience of this map has been increased by around 40% due to the additional monsters.
-Rebalanced the first form of the Necropolis Map Boss (Merveil, the Reflection) to be harder.

From the 2.4 Patch notes

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Bex_GGG wrote:

-Monster life has been increased in tier 4-12 maps.
-Bosses that had a reduced effect of curses on them now have a multiplier rather than a reduction. Over time, more and more curse effect has been made available to players. With the boss curse effect reduction being additive, the increased curse effect available to players overwhelmed it.

So now that the game is balanced around ascendancy classes, nothing has changed if you ignore them eh? Maybe you want to take that ignorant comment back?

Or maybe lets analyze your example maybe you will understand it better.

Ascendancy classes are not ice cream, they are a much more nutrinional meal compared to the basic tree. Not mandatory to live but non-optional when life gets harder and more stressful, aka mandatory to live a better life. When life around get harder overnight you are FORCED to get those better options if you have them. If a war begun overnight you HAVE TO get the best weapons possible, yes you can fight with bows and swords in the modern era of warfare...... GJ you just died.

So cut the bullshit, ascendancies werent optional not even when they first come out, even if the most white of the WK said so.

Dont kid ourselves, any suggestion in the opening thread would have ZERO negative impact on anyone's playstyle while huge positive one for those who support an alternative. Its just people are generally stupid and eat whatever is served to them without inspecting or thinking of the consequences. And GGG likes that, bets on people's naive and ignorant nature, and ofcourse ignores any constructive feedback/suggestion that would greatly improve a part of the game even for those 2k people that vocally expressed their feelings and complaints.

How much time/work do you believe it could take to implement an Izaro only 3-stage fight for ascendancies only? 30minutes? 1hour? Fuck off. In the end we will even be satisfied if we could just pay a carry to run through this pile of shit and open a TP before izaro for us to kill, just get the ascendancy points. How much time/work you believe it would take to implement portaling in and forfeiting every reward except ascendancies? 20minutes?

How many more would be thankful and satisfied if anything was done for that?


Labyrinth is a great place to farm, to spent your time and have some fun (if you are into this genre) and get that sweet enchantments and lab only uniques. And kudos to GGG for taking a bold step and adding something so different inside their game, and the art/design team for their work.

But WHY FORCE the new and experiemental playstyle of a side area to everyone? Would you say the same thing if for example Jewel sockets on the tree were unlocked only through pvp? Its basically the same thing, people dislike the lab even if they run it to get the ascendancies, because tehy have to, they are fucking FORCED too, and you still cant see how fucking INTRUSIVE this whole "optional" content is. The change is radical and yet everyone due to hype just used to doing it. Stupid habbits and hype.

Now GGG has many players feeling disconnected from their game due to one stubborn decision - not to add an alienating game inside their game- but to continue to support their initial implementation and basically ignoring every legitimate complain.

No matter how subjective and narrow-minded one can be there is not a chance he cannot see and understand the legitimacy of the whole issue. (unless plain stupidity is also involved then yes its possible as already shown)

EDIT : Also for players who love the lab and its correlation to ascendancies two days after an expansion came out offering "overhauled" endgame, you seem to wasting a lot of time bumbing an otherwise "uselless whining thread". Someone could even say that you people are like Trump, you are there to make sure the other side wins.

Unfortunately there is no winner in all of this, everybody is losing, GGG losing the support of those few people, the few people losing their favourite hobby, and the rest obsessed with defending it losing in every way possible. Even those who are "neutral" or choose not to participate and make their opinion known lose in the end, inactivity is staleness, and every aspect of life has room for improvment, PoE and the labyrinth are no exception.

Shame that they didnt fix the lab yet.

Regulator just completely destroyed Gaza into something even less than a Gaza strip. Dayum. RIP Gaza

I used to not mind the lab much. I changed my mind. Not exactly sure why, though .. I skipped prophecy, came back, and now I hate it. Prolly because I went casual. Fucking show-stopper. Yea I know casuals have no business playing this game according to .. quite a few people here. Oh well.

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mlangwor wrote:

fuck the lab

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Regulator wrote:

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Gaza wrote:

You never used to have Ascendancy Classes. If you don't want ascendancy classes, your game hasn't changed, you don't have do lab.

Nice thinking mate well put, now let me burst your bubble.

To which I'd add, as noted in this post, that Rory from GGG explicitly stated in a recent podcast that they're building new content (like AoW) around ascendancy classes and how players are playing with their ascendancy classes.

GGG has always indicated that ascendancy classes are a core part of the game. The argument that they're somehow "optional" has been bogus from the start and it should be put completely to rest at this point.

Fortunately for them, defenders of the lab have many Morton's-fork type arguments against its critics e.g. The lab is no different from standard PoE gameplay; or, in the alternative, it is different, but critics of the lab are just too narrow-minded to accept gameplay that extends traditional ARPGs.

So, for example, the ascendancy classes aren't optional, but the lab is so easy, it takes no time to complete and its critics should just suck it up, run the lab for the ACs, and stop complaining. Or, in the alternative, the critics are really just complaining because they find the lab hard and they should l2p.

Edit: p.s. Among the 4 or 5 people who dislike having ascendancy classes behind the lab, which ones are these guys?

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IxisNagus wrote:

So decided to give PoE another chance with the new league and all was fun until i needed to start getting lab/asc points done did one ascension/lab and all the yucky lab memories sprung back to my head.

Atleast it only took one day wasted to re verify that this game is not for me anymore.

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mlangwor wrote:

fuck the lab

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Excyis wrote:

Lab is meh. I don't agree with ascendency classes being kept behind it. It's fine for treasure hunting chests at the end and crafting. But the subclasses is dumb to have there.

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Ragnar119 wrote:

Shame that they didnt fix the lab yet.

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dyneol wrote:

I used to not mind the lab much. I changed my mind. Not exactly sure why, though .. I skipped prophecy, came back, and now I hate it. Prolly because I went casual. Fucking show-stopper. Yea I know casuals have no business playing this game according to .. quite a few people here. Oh well.

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GGG has always indicated that ascendancy classes are a core part of the game. The argument that they're somehow "optional" has been bogus from the start and it should be put completely to rest at this point.

Well that argument was dismissed by most. But there is some truth to it. A lot of people hated Act4 and maybe there are still some left. Exspecially the Belly/Harvest areas. However not going there isn't really an option. Despite the fact that the first 3 labs are far from optional you can ignore them. You can't ignore any story parts of the game. If the lab would just be at the end of Act4 and you would have to do it to get to the next difficulty people would just do it. It might be conceptionally a bit different (you would likely get waypoints there).

Two things that I would do, exspecially since the lab isn't anything to be afraid of anymore (again, the first 3), they are incredible easy, so it wouldn't hurt to put a waypoint before each Izaro, so that you could jump in there, not so much because people might die in there, they shouldn't, but because people might not have the time to do the lab in one go. You could even reset them on death, so they would only apply for people having to leave the lab or having a DC (one that does not result in death).

I would also with 3.0 which includes more different content, reduce the normal lab to only one Izaro fight and the Cruel lab to two. That would make sense from a progression point and also gradually reduce the amount of lab in favor of new content.

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Fortunately for them, defenders of the lab have many Morton's-fork type arguments against its critics e.g. The lab is no different from standard PoE gameplay; or, in the alternative, it is different, but critics of the lab are just too narrow-minded to accept gameplay that extends traditional ARPGs.

Well 90% of the lab has neither traps nor Izaros. It has simple mob slaying. Maybe there are some single trap elements in rooms but they are more design elements than traps. So how exactly is a trap actually different from normal gameplay? We actually have two prime examples. The A4 boss fights. How are those blades in the Daresso fights or those Fireballs in the Kaom fight or basically everything that Malachai does different to traps? Traps are simply dangerzones, either timed or moving. And the moving part is pretty much the whole Malachai fight (exspecially once the actually moving degen zone pops up). Traps are kinda new in that they ignore HP as a defense mechanism, all other defensive mechanism are already ignored at one point in the game, which was why people stacked so much life. So that is more a thing of not being used to life actually not helping. Which isn't even a bad thing.