SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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gathor wrote:

Anyways, seems like we got carried away a bit. Perhaps separate thread about the merits of running lab (not the end chests/enchantments/ascendancy) would be a good idea at some point? Would actually love to hear other people experience with it.

I have a thread on the risk/reward structure of the Labyrinth, which is probably what you're talking about. Here is my most recent post there:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1657066/page/4#p13510625

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Turtledove wrote:

The people posting on the forums is a very small percentage of the people that hold similar views in the general population. That is an obvious fact whether you like it or not.

You know what is another obvious fact ?
Some kind of people come to QQ whenever they do not like something because they expect the game to be design exactly around them and for them.

People having fun come much less to talk about it, because they are playing the game.

And one more time you have no idea ( you have nothing that even looks like a solid basis to assume that, miles away from having something that start looking like a proof lol ), and you should look into a dictionary.

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gathor" wrote:

Xp is pathetic, compare it to any map and you will see

If you do not read completely what I say, that will not be easy.
I have some level for example, and the lab is a whole, that's the whole that makes it good.

After, if you want xp in the lab at higher level, run the uber one.

Lab is a freaking loot pinata, if you have not noticed it, or if you never tried to kill anything ( and then I can easily understand that you do not know it ), you should probably try it again.
I can easily have 2-3 stash tab of loot at the end of a lab run if I clear some packs and go for one cache or two.
You don't know if lab mobs have modifiers affecting what they loot, and they might have considering the pinata that it is.
Sure, lots of rewards at the end of the lab, very very efficient lab runners ( < 5 mins, instant kill Izaro so that it drops 3 keys at the end ) might be better off farming only those, but if you take more than 10/15 mins for your run, clearing more packs and going to one or two caches is just pure bonus, and quite significant.
Personally, I don't play for the competition, I play for fun, and I have much more fun clearing shit on the way and at doubling / tripling my loot, I don't get a 3keys Izaro at the end - granted.

Gorge is the most obvious example of one of the easiest way to level up at higher level, and probably one of the most unbrain also ( which is why it is easy ).
I could have said strand also, but it's only a t6 so ....
Fact is : bashing mobs is the same in the lab than in any other area, basically, there is no game play difference.


@gibbousmoon : had almost forgotten that topic, it's like it got sunk into the QQ thread sea ....

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gathor wrote:

Aww Fruz, calling me troll :( I was dead serious and I don't lack information or something ("faith"?), I got my personal experience with lab which I run many many times despite disliking it a lot.

"Less than 10% of the lab is traps that you have to go through, the rest is about bashing mobs and killing the boss." Now looky here. Guess which part of the lab is where people die, which part is where people are having issues and guess which part of the lab is the one that bores some to death (me included). Bashing mobs in lab? Hahah you must be kidding me, these mods are only flask refillers otherwise you just try to fly through the lab as fast as you can to get to the golden carrots in form of the chests at the end. Ignore everything, stop at traps. Killing the boss is the most enjoyable and PoE like thing one does in lab. I'd rather kill Izaro 10 times in a row than run through the traps. Cause this is fucking hack&slash for me (and hey I don't mind the traps present in this fight, they add to the difficulty). This "10%" spoils the whole thing for me and others and this is the part which you don't understand my guildie. Running from one trap patch to another and stopping for a few to kill one pack in a zone, that is not PoE for me.

People kill the creatures? usually I run by them unless they are in my way or I am bored waiting for a trap to get out of my way.

Sometimes if there is a bottle neck of them ill kill them, but whats the point? The traps and mobs are just 15-30 minutes of boredom filler before the 3 stages of the fight of which the last is the only annoying one.

(https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1709628)

okay i post this here too:

okay i have been thinking about this for quite some time now.

This has been suggested by several people already but... wouldn´t it be awesome and solve all problems with the lab if GGG would make such a ascendant orb?

This orb drops at Izaro or can only be in the currency chest and can be traded to other people that don't really like to run the lab for the AC points. You can only use this orb for the norm - cruel - merc Ac points = 6 points.
For the 7-8th Ac point you need to run the uber lab( or there is a different orb).
People that farm the lab get nice rewards + this orb.... that is especially good for hc players.
You can only use the ascendant orb after completing dominus/malachai in that difficulty:

For example: You killed norm Dominus/Malachai so you can use 2 orbs for your current max points. For now you can't get more. You need to kill cruel Dominus/Malachai to use the next 2 orbs.... to avoid lvl 30 players with 6 AC points.



Pros:

- people farming the lab get rewarded very well. i guess that orb will be worth ~ 10c+ in hc leagues
- people that dont like to run the lab for whatever reason - boring/scared..... - can just gather some currency and pay the brave lab runners
- you can still do lab yourself and sell the orb to somebody else
- we have a new currency (can that ever be an con?)
- It isn`t unfair (in my opinion) because you can only get 6 points and if you want more you have to run uber lab
- non endgame players (stuck in norm, cruel) can farm the lab and sell the orb to buy better equipment... = reason to farm norm, cruel lab at all (and even merc lab - echants are okay... but you want the uber lab ones...)
- people having problems running the lab - laags/latency/pc - can still get those 6 points
- increasing hc population
- high level hc chars, which have never done the lab before can get their points safe and don't have to die in norm lab traps^^
- running the lab rewards you with 2 points, if you want to skip that you have to buy 2 of these orbs ... running the lab is still an option even if it takes 30min. Can you get the currency needed for 2 orbs in 30min?
- ?

Cons:

- is a currency that is only needed 6 times (max) per char = The value of that orb can decrease and people get free ac points without ever having run the lab before (especially in sc)
- ?


In my opinion those 6 AC points are build enabling and thus should not be only accessible playing the lab.
Isn't that a win-win situation?
Any pros/cons you like to add?

thx for your attention :)

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Fruz wrote:

No, like seriously.
I did couple of level in lab when I was in early 80s or a bit before with the char that I'm playing at the moment, it's nice xp, and a lot of loot, and if you don't mind traps some silver caches give you nice rewards on top of it,

Killing them is far from being a waste, of course if you are not aiming for the first ladder place, but competing with builds designed for it when you are not is futile anyway.

Merc lab is very nice loot and xp wise is nice until some later level, and then there is uber for it.

You don't like killing monsters on the way, fine, good for you, they gives tons of loot for the chaos recipe, and some silver caches gives plenty of jewellery also, but if you do not like killing them, it's your problem.
Bashing them is the exact same as brainlessly running gorge, except you cannot off screen them here, this is the only play style difference.

This analogy in this context is of seldom relevance, since your glass of wine will taste bad from A to Z, literally ( given that you can drink it all ).
Once the traps are passed, it's back to the exact same PoE than before, only it's more rewarding.
And on top of that, it's possible to check the map on reddit to find a day with as few traps as possible.

Fruz Cliff Notes version: Lab give much loot guyz....lab is only like 10% trap and 90% loot....lab is fine....u all need to agree with me cause I know much on loot and I like loot alot

You can keep ur lootfest. We dont want lab removed. Just remove the ascend from it. Try to understand this. Everyone wins.

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Prebornfetus wrote:

Fruz Cliff Notes version: Lab give much loot guyz....lab is only like 10% trap and 90% loot....lab is fine....u all need to agree with me cause I know much on loot and I like loot alot

You can keep ur lootfest. We dont want lab removed. Just remove the ascend from it. Try to understand this. Everyone wins.

You completely miss the point too, or you missed the context, either way you're not getting it.

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

The people posting on the forums is a very small percentage of the people that hold similar views in the general population. That is an obvious fact whether you like it or not.

You know what is another obvious fact ?
Some kind of people come to QQ whenever they do not like something because they expect the game to be design exactly around them and for them.

<snip>

@gibbousmoon : had almost forgotten that topic, it's like it got sunk into the QQ thread sea ....

Right, because all threads discussing issues with the lab and how to improve it are QQ threads.

Forgive me for being blunt, but when you lump them all together like that, it doesn't make you look like a particularly thoughtful person. On the contrary, it weakens everything you have to say, because it paints a picture of you expressing your opinion from a place of ignorance--willful or not, it makes no difference.

If you choose not to acknowledge that legitimate criticisms exist for the Labyrinth (and believe me, any content attracting this much hate is NOT perfect, so legitimate criticisms must exist), then it is hard to take seriously any counter-argument you provide, because they end up amounting to little more than a childish "Nuh uh!"

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Right, because all threads discussing issues with the lab and how to improve it are QQ threads.

Nop, and that's exactly why I did not include your thread in it, I just said that it got sunk into it, not that it "vanished like the other QQ threads" for example.

But there is no denying that many of those threads bring basically nothing ( or in many cases nothing that has not been said already, or it is formulated very poorly) and are just QQ.
This threads brings interesting things, but if you go through all the pages, tons of QQ too.

Dunno why you reacted like this, valid criticism obviously exist for such matters.

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Fruz wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Right, because all threads discussing issues with the lab and how to improve it are QQ threads.

Nop, and that's exactly why I did not include your thread in it, I just said that it got sunk into it, not that it "vanished like the other QQ threads" for example.

But there is no denying that many of those threads bring basically nothing ( or in many cases nothing that has not been said already, or it is formulated very poorly) and are just QQ.
This threads brings interesting things, but if you go through all the pages, tons of QQ too.

Dunno why you reacted like this, valid criticism obviously exist for such matters.

I misunderstood then, and apologize.

But please be careful with "QQ" accusations. It's a shorthand method of dismissing anything someone has to say as childish crying, and as such is rarely useful in any discussion.

Instead, if a criticism has no merit, it's better to say so directly. And give a reason.

Criticisms that have no merit, you say? Like the people who bash Lab haters and accuse them of all forms of ad hominem nonsense? There's I reason I put those trolls on my ignore list, Gib.