SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Labyrinth is a different gameplay than the rest of the game for many if not most people. That is why it is fair, accurate and truthful to say that labyrinth gameplay is drastically different from the rest of PoE. If that is not the way it is for you then fine. It doesn't mean that you are right and we are wrong. It means that we are both right.

Less than 10% of the lab is traps that you have to go through, the rest is about bashing mobs and killing the boss.
10% drastic ?
Go find a dictionary, you need it.

You know what they say, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." In other words, if a person doesn't wish to try to understand another persons point of view then there's not much more that can be done. Or put another way

The dung beetle said, "Eat your delicious poop."

The beetle that doesn't like eating poop replies, "It is okay with me if you eat poop. I don't consider poop to be food. I like other food. Just because you like eating poop, not everyone has to like eating poop. "

The dung beetle says, "You don't have a clue what the definition of food is. Here's the dung beetle dictionary, look up delicious. It says poop is delicious! If you like you can bury the poop and let it ferment a little, for an extra special treat, very delicious. You only have to eat 10% poop. Look up delicious in the dictionary, you need it."

You are completely missing the point, one more time.

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Fruz wrote:

You are completely missing the point, one more time.

The point is that we're speaking for a large number of people that feel the same way. The vast majority of people that don't like labyrinth but just quits playing hardcore or quits playing PoE altogether sooner than they would have if there wasn't a boring, irritating, tedious, not fun labyrinth and never posts in the forum. If you don't care to understand fine.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

You are completely missing the point, one more time.

The point is that we're speaking for a large number of people that feel the same way

One more time, you have absolutely no idea about this.
And if its not proportionally to the PoE's playerbase, it means nothing.
So here it is, you are pulling stuff out of your a** one more, you know basically nothing about this, only GGG do.

And yeah, you were completely miss-using the work drastic to try to support your point fallaciously, nothing changes this.

Aww Fruz, calling me troll :( I was dead serious and I don't lack information or something ("faith"?), I got my personal experience with lab which I run many many times despite disliking it a lot.

"Less than 10% of the lab is traps that you have to go through, the rest is about bashing mobs and killing the boss." Now looky here. Guess which part of the lab is where people die, which part is where people are having issues and guess which part of the lab is the one that bores some to death (me included). Bashing mobs in lab? Hahah you must be kidding me, these mods are only flask refillers otherwise you just try to fly through the lab as fast as you can to get to the golden carrots in form of the chests at the end. Ignore everything, stop at traps. Killing the boss is the most enjoyable and PoE like thing one does in lab. I'd rather kill Izaro 10 times in a row than run through the traps. Cause this is fucking hack&slash for me (and hey I don't mind the traps present in this fight, they add to the difficulty). This "10%" spoils the whole thing for me and others and this is the part which you don't understand my guildie. Running from one trap patch to another and stopping for a few to kill one pack in a zone, that is not PoE for me.

Well that pervious coment was trollish yeah.
I mean, monsters are monsters, they hit you according to their strength and that's it, if you are strong enough you can *block* it.
The huge sawblades don't care about your armor, theyr are cutting through it, seems consistent there to me.

If sometimes unpredictables and fast moving monsters would hit you for a % of life, that would be quite terribles, traps however have a given pattern that can be analyzed and you can avoid them.
And it has been said before, it does seem obvious to me, so yeah, I said what I said.


Flask refillers ? And how is that any different from offscreening monsters in gorge without a sweat ?
That is exactly the same : bashing mobs.

And the density is good, the rewards are also goods, so yeah, unless you are competing for the ladder, it would be kinda of a waste not to kill anything.

The rest is a bit irrelevant, yes those parts are the ones that most people complaining about the lab are QQing about it ( some complains are about Izaro, but those are a bit different ), the original point stands : it's only a (very) small portion of the lab ( if you have 2 golden doors it's a bit more than that yeah, bad day ), and the rest of the experience is the same.

Those small portions make some people really dislike the lab, I understand that, I think that we all do.
It does not change the fact that it's only a bit of the whole lab; and thus it's not a "drastically" differnet content.

Yes Fruz, monsters in lab are to refill flasks only. Nothing else. You don't kill them for xp or loot (though I admit I like to kill a lot if bored which resulted in 2 ex drops, game wants me to love that lab doesn't it), you almost don't kill them at all. Skip as many of them as possible, kill only to refill and run towards next Izaro stage. It is actually a waste to kill anything in lab and ladder competition got nothing on it as there are only several people that matter there. You run the lab for loot or enchants, that is it. Spending time killing stuff in lab is a waste of time given the level of it so why would you do that instead of running higher maps which have extra rarity/quantity? No reason at all. Only the rewards at the end of your run matter. Again I am speaking from personal experience but it is enough to see other people runs to know that this is the case.
About the "bit" of the whole lab or the 10%. You know, a drop of poison in a glass of wine spoils the whole glass. You get the analogy.

No, like seriously.
I did couple of level in lab when I was in early 80s or a bit before with the char that I'm playing at the moment, it's nice xp, and a lot of loot, and if you don't mind traps some silver caches give you nice rewards on top of it,

Killing them is far from being a waste, of course if you are not aiming for the first ladder place, but competing with builds designed for it when you are not is futile anyway.

Merc lab is very nice loot and xp wise is nice until some later level, and then there is uber for it.

You don't like killing monsters on the way, fine, good for you, they gives tons of loot for the chaos recipe, and some silver caches gives plenty of jewellery also, but if you do not like killing them, it's your problem.
Bashing them is the exact same as brainlessly running gorge, except you cannot off screen them here, this is the only play style difference.

This analogy in this context is of seldom relevance, since your glass of wine will taste bad from A to Z, literally ( given that you can drink it all ).
Once the traps are passed, it's back to the exact same PoE than before, only it's more rewarding.
And on top of that, it's possible to check the map on reddit to find a day with as few traps as possible.

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

You are completely missing the point, one more time.

The point is that we're speaking for a large number of people that feel the same way

One more time, you have absolutely no idea about this.
And if its not proportionally to the PoE's playerbase, it means nothing.
So here it is, you are pulling stuff out of your a** one more, you know basically nothing about this, only GGG do.

And yeah, you were completely miss-using the work drastic to try to support your point fallaciously, nothing changes this.

The people posting on the forums is a very small percentage of the people that hold similar views in the general population. That is an obvious fact whether you like it or not.

Saying I have no idea of number of people disliking labyrinth is total bullshit. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence and a couple of polls. We know that a significant percentage of people do not like traps. My guess is between 40% and 60% but at least 10% or 15% is a very safe bet, which is still a significant percentage. Very true that GGG has a much better idea of the actual percentage though.

No drastic is applicable. Eating poop is always drastic even if it is only 1%, unless you're a dung beetle.

Xp is pathetic, compare it to any map and you will see. For loot open Silver caches which are not that good at all really. If Silver caches were worth the hassle you would instantly see lab runners getting all silver keys. As of now the only one that is worth it really is one that gives extra treasure key. (Also Lead to Gold shrine is pretty nice there too.) Even plain Dried lake is better than Merc lab, xp and loot wise. Also how are monsters giving you tons of loot for chaos recipe? These are plain unmoded monsters, nothing special about them at all. They pose no danger to you almost at all, just mindlessly mince them. Run pack size map with some quantity and few good mods then you will see loots.
What is with you and that Gorge and offscreening? You assume everyone runs Gorge only on hyper clear speed characters? Perhaps you take it too much to your heart, me personally couldn't give two fucks about offscreening in Gorge or in any other map for that matter.

That glass of badly tasting wine-Lab, it's horrible but I still drink it when I have to. Doesn't mean I like it and that is why I keep on posting here.

"Once the traps are passed, it's back to the exact same PoE than before, only it's more rewarding." Exactly, traps. I rather just play good ole PoE instead of jumping around through traps to play good ole PoE afterwards. And I strongly disagree with more rewarding part as I stated earlier.

Anyways, seems like we got carried away a bit. Perhaps separate thread about the merits of running lab (not the end chests/enchantments/ascendancy) would be a good idea at some point? Would actually love to hear other people experience with it.

Back to topic - TRUMP 2016!