SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

"

What should the ladder tell us? That people are playing PoE? That people manage to get to lvl 90+ quite fast?

There is a ladder for how fast the lab is completed.

https://www.pathofexile.com/labyrinth

"

And what about the shitty statement about video proof? Huray, there are people who have no problems with lab, have perfectly fine internet connection and whatsoever. THis does only proof that lab is playable, but it doesn't change anything about the fact, that a big part of the community hates the lab, or it's mechanics and find it boring.

The videos (and the ladder for the lab) prove that clinging to the statement that 45 min is a "good time" or whatever Chris said exactly is just wrong. Don't cling to stuff that isn't logical, people were doing sub 10 min runs before it was massively released to the public.

"

I like the classic gameplay and this classic gameplay always made it possible for me to get everything i need for character customization. That's the truth and now GGG decided to gate content behind new gameplay no one asked for in the first place. They did a huge experiment and that's ok, but they failed to develop it in a way that it appeals to almost everyone. That's a fact and no video or no ladder changes anything about that.

When people say I like class gameplay, thats like saying I like rolling my face on the keyboard and not having to pay attention to the challenge. GGG never has to develop content that appeals to everyone, the whole game wasn't suppose to appeal to everyone, it was suppose to be a successor almost to D2, so if they tried to for example cater to people that like D3, they would fail to capture an audience that likes d2 a lot.

This isn't to say they can make a change to make it appeal more to people that have issues with the lab, as stated so many pages ago, I support a change that offers more of a maze like experience in the lab, instead of a trap like experience. But I can't simply fathom how offering AC points behind content you do anyway adds anything interesting to the game or is an actual rewarding experience for the player.

"

Ofc I am allowed. I'm not interpreting chris comments, I take them as they are. If he says "Our estimation is that a lab run takes up to 45 minutes" then he said EXACTLY that. YOU are the one intepreting the word "initial" into that and so YOU have to prove that he meant initial. It's so simple and that's how it works in reallife. But I guess in your twisted world others aren't allowed to interprete and if they do, they have to deliver proof. But I guess you dont have to prove anything, because you think you're always right in what you say.

You assume it means it should forever and always take that long, despite the fact that he has been proven otherwise. Again sticking to the notion that it should take 45 min for a run is just asinine.

"

And lets not forget that your "streamers" and "youtubers" are usually pros who play PoE like 12 hours a day and earn money with that. They have to be pro and they have to fiddle around with new content if they dont want to lose viewers. But the mayority of the community (99%+) are non-pros who dont earn their money with that. And an extremely large part of these 99% are people who take their time when doing the lab (like myself). I think the lab is boring and thanks to desync and lags the lab is quite dangerous for me. Speedrunning is almost impossible for me without putting myself into big danger. And this counts for many players. Just because you are one of the few with perfectly stable internet connection and you are one of the few who adore the lab doesn't mean you speak for the mayority. The dozens of threads who are there and satill popping up clearly show that there are enough for want a change (to lab or availability to AC points). For many this has nothing to do that the lab is impossible to do, it's just that it's boring to them.

If you have connection issues and know that the lab has to be done in one swoop you probably shouldn't be taking extra time to complete the challenge, thats just common sense dude.

"

Blabla, now how you are just desperate and paranoid. Alt accounts... no real attemt at the content... Lol. There were many good posts and many good suggestions, but tryhard people like you just demand NO change at all. You don't want anything that makes AC points more available (through alternative ways for example) to those who like the classic poe gameplay and/or actually hate the lab because it's boring for them.

This is just incorrect and proves that this massive list of a thread assumes whatever is on the last page and no one will read all of the pages of the content. This is why massive threads like this never accomplish anything.

You say I don't support alternative methods, yet I have posted on record many times that I do, as long as it keeps AC in the lab.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216/page/132

"

And all your talk about "proven". There are many people who do the lab and even the uber lab and still hate it. I also have characters who did merciless lab. That doesn't mean shit. Being able to do content is not equivalent to like that content. I do it because it is necessary for my build. But if I could avoid it or get my points with a more classic approach, I would never touch the lab. And this counts for many people. So it's also proven that there are people who know much about the lab and still hate it.

No shit, if you can choose to do content that is challenging or content you can faceroll, players like yourself would always choose the easier route. Hell many players would, because path of least resistance, that is why the AC points must remain in the lab and if a solution is needed one that offers a different twist to the "issue" of the lab, aka traps would be needed.





Except you can make a design choice based on people like you. Simply put you put this into a situation where the only way you die to lag or desync is by traps and that is 100% false and you fucking know it.

Don't think for a second that just because they make improvements to connection methods or such, that its actually a super large problem for people, seeing as you are the first one to even mention this of my knowledge in this thread, it goes to prove how small of a number of people will use the "connection" method as an excuse. Despite that you still say you can complete the challenge, so what exactly is the problem then, that if you spend more then 30 min on the lab you can\will get disconnected?

"

The content isn't rewarding, it's just annoying and a necessity in order to get the AC points. I always feel like closing the game when I reach lvl 40 and need to do the lab to get the most out of my character. Most of the time I pay a lvl 80+ juggernaut to get through it in 15 mins or less, but that's still super annoying, because it costs quite a fortune to pay norm/cruel/merc (and uber if I ever decide to struggle through it). If you count uber in, you have to pay at least 15c for all labs for just one character. So I have to decide: Boring and dangerous or boring (but fast) and less dangerous (but still deadly).

If it wasn't rewarding you wouldn't be doing it.


15c isn't shit, but even thats an overpayment.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216/page/111

No, i think you should apologise.

It's funny that you only remember the suggestion that has a picture on it...

I support this thread. Vigorously. Lab needs serious re-thinking and/or to be removed from gating Ascendancy and/or Ascendancy needs to not figure in "normal character" difficulty balancing. It's way too inherently broken by being beyond utterly trivial for some builds and annoying as hell for others. It's hopelessly incongruous to the rest of the game as it currently exists and that severely detracts from all the rest of what Path of Exile is.

Well, Chris_GGG is under the deluded impression that most people like Lab, and we all know he doesn't read these forums anyway. PoE is going to die a slow death due to arrogance and the faulty minority/majority arguments being used as justification for bad decisions. It's a shame too, because there is a lot of brilliant talent in the dev teams, and this game could be so much more than what it is turning into.

"

Pyrokar wrote:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216/page/111

No, i think you should apologise.

It's funny that you only remember the suggestion that has a picture on it...

So 20 pages before the one I said, I fought the idea with some arguements, but 20 pages later I magically support the idea?

I supported the idea all along as long as it is implemented correctly, its obvious that if I enjoy the lab now and think the content should be done and the rewards be something that you work for that it should be done right.

So no, you need to fucking apologize because you are incorrect with the statement:

"

No you don't. When me and casul_ascent made a suggestion like that you were "problem this, problem that". So yea. Fuck you goetzjam.

I do support the one that keeps the AC points inside the lab. I've stated this, if you don't care to listen that isn't my fucking fault.

"

So 20 pages before the one I said, I fought the idea with some arguements, but 20 pages later I magically support the idea?

What are you asking? Why you did that? No idea, probably because you could "enhance" the most recent one to fit your standards and claim it as your own. That's why you support that one.

"

goetzjam wrote:

See you made that statement after my post, yet I wasn't the one that complained about that suggestion.


So Pyrokar & casual, apologize for your mistake.

No, you apologise.

"

goetzjam wrote:

@Prisus

Your casual-hardcore assessment assumes that everyone in that group hates the lab, if this was the case there would be no doubt in my mind that GGG would be forced to change something, yet it can't possibly be the case because reddit doesn't have daily threads about it, like they do about trading and other topics that this category of players dislike.

I can see how you can come that conclusion. I am not saying everyone in that subgroup hates the lab, but I would venture to say that some do. Majority? who knows.

The fact is that if we make lab just a hair more accessible. Maybe tone down some ridiculous trap combos and make it so that there is a way to see an entire trap layout before traversing it, it would help to not frustrate a lot of people.

My only point in bringing that subgroup of players up, was to indicate that sometimes considerations need to be made for that group of people. GGG has done this in the past with master crafting and easier linking and other mechanisms in game. They should review the labyrinth with the same lens, because in the long run I think it will benefit the company and game as a whole a lot more.

Comparing reddit to here is an inane practice, anyway. Lots of players prefer one platform over the other (for example, I hate Reddit--regardless of game/topic), and it's extremely unprofessional to ignore the game's proprietary forum in favor of a 3rd party one. This is why Riot (LoL) decided to impose the Reddit style format onto their own forums.

In either case, Goetz is just looking for a group that hasn't spoken up that he can speak for, and that ship won't sail. Nobody buys into such a biased notion, especially without the data to back it up. Any assumptions/assertions made about people who don't speak up are flawed, regardless of which side you are trying to claim them for.

"

Pyrokar wrote:

"

So 20 pages before the one I said, I fought the idea with some arguements, but 20 pages later I magically support the idea?

What are you asking? Why you did that? No idea, probably because you could "enhance" the most recent one to fit your standards and claim it as your own. That's why you support that one.

"

goetzjam wrote:

See you made that statement after my post, yet I wasn't the one that complained about that suggestion.


So Pyrokar & casual, apologize for your mistake.

No, you apologise.

So just because my tone slightly changed, my stance somehow did? No my tone changed because over the few pages before the idea was suggested and after Chris confirmed that keeping AC in the lab was the least hated idea (or appeared to be) by the people that liked the lab, I felt like acknowledgement that the solution I support is the one most likely to be implemented.

So stop fucking pretending like I literally fight every single idea that has been posted to perhaps make the lab enjoyable for others. Because that is obviously incorrect and further such post are just blatant lies, full well acknowledging that I even linked you previously where I supported an idea that was a change to how to get AC points.

"

I can see how you can come that conclusion. I am not saying everyone in that subgroup hates the lab, but I would venture to say that some do. Majority? who knows.

The fact is that if we make lab just a hair more accessible. Maybe tone down some ridiculous trap combos and make it so that there is a way to see an entire trap layout before traversing it, it would help to not frustrate a lot of people.

My only point in bringing that subgroup of players up, was to indicate that sometimes considerations need to be made for that group of people. GGG has done this in the past with master crafting and easier linking and other mechanisms in game. They should review the labyrinth with the same lens, because in the long run I think it will benefit the company and game as a whole a lot more.

I'm not saying that was your intention, but people reading may see that as your intention. So your clarification is appreciated.


So funny you say if we make it a hair more accessible, because I believe the one good idea for a proposed change would be more then a hair and it really does solve all of the trap gameplay issues, aside from trials.

Instead I feel like this thread as been more focused on the hate for the lab and throwing up any idea that is different from now, instead of focusing on what Chris said was the idea that gets the least resistance from the people that enjoy the lab and being more focused on improvement, rather then the generic shitposting like "i hate lab, traps blah blah" That doesn't solve shit, we know people don't like traps, cool what does posting that do to help get the lab changed? What does generic 1-2 line statements that have been repeated here do, absolutely nothing but clutter the thread with bullshit responses.


I think its funny you compare it to masters, when indeed masters were changed multiple times because of various groups that exploited them too much.

Masters initially provided a cheap hybrid mod, which made crafting weapons "too easy" and removed the purpose of uniques like binos, for example.

It was then made more expensive, then removed altogether. Stuff like the master meta mods were 2 eternals at one point, but was reduced when they were removed to make it, in general more accessible, but that was a significant amount of time after they were actually introduced. Its not like they just magically made a change, even though it was just a numerical cost like that.

Imagine how much work it would possibly be to do the "good" suggestion in this thread, like having you be able to pick a more trap oriented lab like now or more puzzle\maze like one.

I'm still sadden by the fact you won't explain how the lab limits playstyles or something, because if its the boss fight or something like that, the change I support wouldn't really affect the boss fight at all. Meaning the solution to the "trap" problem won't address your issue with niche playstyles. So idk when you respond like I'm the only one asking questions and the devs wouldn't want answers to both side makes me feel bad :(

"

I'm still sadden by the fact you won't explain how the lab limits playstyles or something...

The fact that this needs to be explained says it all, mate.