SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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goetzjam wrote:

So you are saying that GGG needs to be designing content for the "casual" player that can't devote a couple of hours a night or a good amount of time over the weekend to play?

I don't think GGG stopped reading this, but I think its very difficult to know what's really been said because the thread has somewhat changed over time from its original post.

No. This game has always had as player base hierarchy.

For me the the stratification is as follows:

Casual - Plays the game because its F2P and usually stops after a normal play through (if they even make it that far).

Casual-Hardcore - Plays the game for the majority of the content. Will create characters well into their 80's to fully flush out character skill points and get semi-affordable gear. (i.e. builds < 3ex) For the most part this player doesn't trade and only trades when they have to for simple things. They want to be challenged, but hate "gated" content.

Hardcore - Play the game night and day. Enjoy every aspect of the game. Usually so good at trading that 30-50ex builds in a league is "normal" to them.

Now with this hierarchy in mind, I am almost 100% sure that converting a casual player to a hardcore player is near impossible. It is possible however to turn Casual-Hardcore players to Hardcore players as well as Casual players to Casual-hardcore players.

In order to make this game fun for the Hardcore player, I think that some importance has to be give to converting players from casual to casual-hardcore. Why? Because some of the best experiences in this game for hardcore players and casual-hardcore players come from it. Trading, economy building, so much is dependent on having new/learning players AND experienced players interacting with each other.

Catering only to one of these sub-classes is bad imo because it doesn't GROW the community. It makes it stagnant. I love seeing new players ask questions and try to learn the game. It makes the game so more exciting.

These same types of considerations should be included when making decisions on lab functionality. That is all I can say.

I

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Or they could just fix the Lab's common issues and have that playerbase go up to 120,000.

But then Geotztjam would quit. As the single most important player GGG has, this could be devastating.

Oh, shit. What do we do?

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Prisus wrote:

Then again, what could they do to make it more accessible?

They dont have to make the labyrinth more accesible but the ascendancy points. Doing so at least we can completely ignore the existance of the lab in a very similar way others ignore atziri. Thats solution no1. They ofcourse can choose one of the 15 suggestions in the opening post and or find a suitable solution on their own so that they improve the labyrinth experience for the "minority" to have a reason to enjoy, find it fun, engaging etc.

There are really way too many solutions, some extreme and other more middle-ground. But honestly anything to improve/change/rework/remove/decouple the medium to get the ascendancy points would be a step in the right direction.

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Prisus wrote:

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Should we the minority stay, or should we go?
Cheers.

Well look at it this way. If you go and are truly the minority, nobody will notice.
However if you go and you aren't the minority, then we'll potentially see some major changes to Ascendancy points.

It's a decision you have to make on your own. How much do I hate the lab? Enough to leave? If so then that is the question every player that hates the lab should ask themselves.

At the end of the day, I don't think that GGG would want a player base of 100,000 going down to 20,000. They seem to be okay with the 100,000 going to 80,000 though. So if players like you are the minority or majority, all of us will know soon enough.

True words indeed. But the thing is the core game remains fun and good and all that stuff. While leaving surely sends a message that message could be "GGG your performance this time was teribble, even worse than perandus league, im out of here", or "GGG the fuck i cant 6-link my armour", or "GGG gaem is 2 EZ, bb n00bz". Simply playing but ignoring the labyrinth completely or even playing but only doing the lab only 1time per difficulty sends a completely different and above all more presice message. In the first case "hmm the lab must be really fucked up if people are not even doing it for the ascendancy points that are so OP and fun", the latter "hm they are doing it only for the ascendancies, we might want to improve it a bit so they are incentivized to have fun with it - but we already have as many rewards as possible gathered in one place Chris what more can we do? - yeah scrub thats a wrong move, while its true some like only the carrot the purpose of the game is to be a fun past time activity, lets add an alternative way to ascend inside or even outside of the lab, and then see what people like in the lab and what they dislike and fix that too'

Ok i fucked it up a bit being way too optimistic, but yeah leaving is not always the right path. For example i still have fun with the game and it remained literally the same (except for a worse performance) for me since the talisman league. Perandus added nothing, prophecy added well prophecies, i still dont ascend and im having fun, like genuinely i enjoy the whole game except the lab part that i havent touched since alpha testing.

I choose to spent my free time doing things that i enjoy, as i guess many people do too. Im not going to magically enjoy the lab because some arrogant and ignorant arsehole in the internet told me so, simple things that as you already stated some narrow-minded individuals dont have the ability to understand.

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

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Prisus wrote:

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

Should we the minority stay, or should we go?
Cheers.

Well look at it this way. If you go and are truly the minority, nobody will notice.
However if you go and you aren't the minority, then we'll potentially see some major changes to Ascendancy points.

It's a decision you have to make on your own. How much do I hate the lab? Enough to leave? If so then that is the question every player that hates the lab should ask themselves.

At the end of the day, I don't think that GGG would want a player base of 100,000 going down to 20,000. They seem to be okay with the 100,000 going to 80,000 though. So if players like you are the minority or majority, all of us will know soon enough.

That's why we need that Labyrinth and PoE future plans manifesto! :)

One step ahead, i already messaged support yesterday and asked a very similar question. They indeed said they passed it to the development department but they cant know if any action will be taken/question answered. I seriously hope they give us something, if nothing else at least they could be honest and not continue this ignore/silence policy, which is truly cowardish.

P.S : OOhhhh :(, dont tease the poor fool, he doesnt know any better.

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goetzjam wrote:

Freaking Turtle didn't even do the merc lab on his character until I called him out on it. Like really?

fucking lab,

Dearest Goetzjam, you are very fond of making personal attacks against people to try to invalidate their opinions. This is a common tactic that trolls engage in. You were being your usual self when claiming that you knew better than me why I hate labyrinth. In your normal all knowing godly knowledge of what other people are thinking, had declared that my opinion of life long hating of trap gameplay was irrelevant and that in order for my opinion of labyrinth to be valid in this thread I would have to run through the whole labyrinth. This was really a rather inane opinion to hold, although I'm happy for you that you are so proud of your inane idea and seem so clueless as to how silly it is.

Thank you for sharing your own perceived insight into my own thoughts and feelings Chris Wilsons own thoughts and feelings and proving once again that you don't know what you're talking about unless it is about topics you are expert in like fucking lab, fucking power and fucking discussions.

Kindest regards,

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goetzjam wrote:

END OF THE FUCKING DISCUSSION.

After all, what choice do we have but to bend knee to the supreme, all-knowingness of his incomparable magnanimosity? We filthy plebian casuals clearly have inept opinions due to our inferior digital standing. Why, one simple glance at someone's character list is all you need to completely dismiss anything they have to say, and is in no way an indicator of the truth of their words. Even Chris W. himself defers to this mighty paragon's fathomless judgment. Let us pray he shows mercy upon us, for we are unworthy of consideration, respect, or insight into his caliginous sagocity.

Radical Labyrinth GameDesign

Say it with me folks.

We need to call out the problem in POE and fix it now.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

After all, what choice do we have but to bend knee to the supreme, all-knowingness of his incomparable magnanimosity? We filthy plebian casuals clearly have inept opinions due to our inferior digital standing. Why, one simple glance at someone's character list is all you need to completely dismiss anything they have to say, and is in no way an indicator of the truth of their words. Even Chris W. himself defers to this mighty paragon's fathomless judgment. Let us pray he shows mercy upon us, for we are unworthy of consideration, respect, or insight into his caliginous sagocity.

-> Wants Labyrinth changed
-> Turns the only meaningful Lab-change thread into shit-post fest.
-> ???
-> Profit (???)

It was that before I got here, and I stated many, many pages ago how I felt about the issue. Your post is just as counter-productive, so yay hypocrisy.

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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There's been too many posts to count. Look past your nose.

I'm SPECIFICALLY looking for how it limits diversity, this conversation has nothing to do with you. At least Prisus post on his main account...

Do a forum search. Stop being so lazy and L2Forum. Or I can walk you through it for 2 Ex.

Or he can answer the question because he is the one that specifically made this statement, again this has nothing to do with you, so kindly mind your own fucking business.

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But then Geotztjam would quit. As the single most important player GGG has, this could be devastating.

I never said I would quit if they fixed issues, removing AC out of the lab doesn't fix the issue it just removes the conflict completely to appeal to players that refuse to even give the lab a try.

As I said before I support changes to the lab that actually keep AC points in it. Make you do a choice at the start to navigate more thru traps or more thru a maze like instances that will take you longer then navigating thru the labs. Perhaps require you to get various pieces from the side areas that would have otherwise been skipped by people that actually put themselves thru the challenge and the dangerous aspects of the lab.

Stop posting on your smurf.


@Prisus

Your casual-hardcore assessment assumes that everyone in that group hates the lab, if this was the case there would be no doubt in my mind that GGG would be forced to change something, yet it can't possibly be the case because reddit doesn't have daily threads about it, like they do about trading and other topics that this category of players dislike.



@Turtledove

Its a fact that you started to complain about the lab without ever completing it, that is an indisputable fact. Proving my point that at least one player in this discussion refused to even complete the content before complaining about it. That just proves that people that "hate" the lab might not have actually even done the content before complaining about it. If I had to guess most of you guys haven't even done the uber lab yet either.

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-> Wants Labyrinth changed
-> Turns the only meaningful Lab-change thread into shit-post fest.
-> ???
-> Profit (???)

This is a common occurrence in this thread. Rather then actually address any of the counter arguments, people just turn up and start effectively shitposting. The mods don't give 2 shits either though.


If you people hate the lab so much, quit playing the game, quit posting on the forums and show GGG your true numbers, unless you are willing to stick to your cause and show the true numbers they aren't going to do shit. Not that they likely are going to do shit anyway.