SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]
" Ok, I can understand the technical argument, but was talking more about game-play, assuming ideal technical conditions. I'd rather run a few Labs, than the same old quest content 3x for every char. If jumping over a few traps is such a huge gameplay issue for some, how is GGG gonna put more challenging stuff into the game? PoE playerbase got used to the game being absolutely easy. The hard content was either not available (through RNG "gating") or easily ignored (Atziri etc.). The Lab stuck the hornets nest by putting an actual game-play obstacle in front of everyone. An obstacle that is 100% deterministic and mostly skill-"gated", instead of RNG. I think the Lab is the battlefield that will decide the future direction of PoE. If GGG caves in and removes the Lab or makes Asc points trivial to obtain, then PoE will never recover it's supposed hardcore glory. If GGG stays the course, then we could see PoE evolve back into the supposed hardcore experience that it was meant to be. There was a post from some GGG dev, explaining what "hardcore" means for them: 1.) Investment of time 2.) Investment of knowledge 3.) Investment of skill 4.) Investment of passion The Lab is the only thing right now that holds this pillars together. Everything else is just a huge investment of time and some tiny bit of knowledge. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Jun 23, 2016, 4:23:01 AM
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Dear morbo im asking sorry in advance for destroying your bubble.
Spoiler
" The same way you rather run a few labs id rather run 15times a4. Where does that leaves us? 200 people might like to run atziri, and 500 the pale counsil. Personal preferences mean absolutely nothing if not supported by arguments. I like also to drink beer, like that part of your comment its totally irrelevant. " You are actually wondering how a company that has upgraded their office and hired like 60-80 extra people to work speficically in the only game they are making, will put more challenging stuff into the game? First of all, in SC environment evryting is easy so i hope you talk about HC. There are a lot of challenging content in the game, the fact that they are optional or hard to get doesnt decrease their difficulty in any way. Though after taking 2minutes to think about it, that might indeed be an issue, since those people actually added the labyrinth there must really be a huge problem from a creativity point of view. Copying indiana jones and prince of persia only to add it in a totally different game is simply put a fail. " Skill gated? Pressing the hotkey for the quicksilver flask and the movement skill is considered skillful? If yes 90% of the playerbase are masters of this "skill". The game-play obstacle you are reffering to is the CHANGE OF GAMEPLAY, and thats a serious issue that still people CANT or DONT want to understand. " The only feature that is considered Hardcore in the lab is the die -> restart thing, that doesnt apply for HC since there dying = end. In case you are an SC player you might find that aspect of the labyrinth hardcore but really its just an extra nuisance of the labyrinth. And yes labyrinth made it so that PoE will either continue being a true ActionRPG diamond or a failed ArcadeRPG. Id rather have the first one and not a clone of indiana jones, frogger and prince of persia. " Farming fragments for atziri needs time, fighting the bosses without dying needs both knowledge and skill. Thats hardcore and also optional. Getting to red maps requires a lot of time and game knowledge. Killing certain bosses requires skill and knowledge too. Putting yourself through some truly horrible maps/layouts/bosses requires passion. Thats hardcore and also optional. Now based on what you said to get all the ascendancy points from the lab requires max 1hour, almost no time investment. The knowledge required is that of the core game. The skill required is to press hotkeys for quicksilver and movment skills. Passion, you must really love the labyrinth to put yourself through this stupid content, and i agree those who love the labyrinth are at least passionate people (note : reason>passion). Hmm rather interesting wouldnt you say? " PoE was perfectly fine before labyrinth (except balance issues). The moment lab was indroduced the game's foundation started shaking, the pillars that hold the game together are we the players. When we the players are so divided that means one thing only, PoE is collapsing. " Didnt you mention just above that this is what hardcore means according to some dev? Hmmm. Also a link to that dev's comment would be sweet. Playing a game is a hobby, a medium to pass your free time, a thing you do to have fun and entertainment. Labyrinth sucked that out of PoE, adding a frustrating and tedious ordeal in order to get a reward that is non-optional. Even people defending the lab with passion admit how boring and tedious the whole thing is. And its not a coincidence that anti-lab threads STILL keep popping up even after 3+ months. Labyrinth IS THAT alienating and anti-PoE, imagine how boring and horrible it must feel to many, when they would prefer to do the core difficulties even more isntead of the labyrinth. By the way there have been like 50+ pages i originally asked the question to follow (or a very and still have not seen a response to it. How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience? Cause basically thats what is all about. If the game remains the same while more people can have fun or even tickle the labyrinth (since this thread also supports enhancing the labyrinth experience, not by giving more candy for the children but rather making it more enjoyable), wouldnt that be an improvement? Cause as it is now only a handful of people truly enjoy the whole experience, some enjoy the rewards and the rest set foot only once in there per character (with the exception of few individuals who dont even get the basic ascendancy points due to their beliefs). Also updated the OP with parts of one of gibbousmoon's recent posts, since i think it clears many ambiguities, and gathers and summarizes in an orgnaized manner many of the objections/issues that have been heard against the lab as it is currently. Inundated with cockroaches, I am
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions |
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Regarding the argument that PoE was getting boring because too repetitive and labyrinth may be a fix to this.
This is a bad argument. What makes a game fun or not fun is the gameplay. If the core gameplay is getting boring or repetitive to a player then that player will probably just play another game, a game with different gameplay. Adding an OPTIONAL area in a game with different gameplay might be a good move to give players interested in a quick change of pace something to do without changing games. However, it is a bad move to make that area with different gameplay mandatory because for players that are not interested in a change of pace or who dislike that kind of gameplay are going to be unhappy. Please note that I'm not really directing this post at any game players. This post is instead really meant to be questioning the wisdom of GGG's decision to make Labyrinth mandatory. The purpose of this thread is to try to explore ways to correct that decision to make labyrinth mandatory. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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The first run in each difficulty to get the AC points should have infinity portals and be easier.
gg |
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" Yeah God forbid there be content in this game that can't just be zerged and cheesed down to death. If you are too incompetent to complete the challenge you don't deserve the points. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
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...says the softcore guy.
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" Yes, beliefs is the right word... You could even say due to almost religious Lab-hate / cult-like behaviour :) If Lab is that easy, that doesn't require nor skill nor time, then why you guys spend so much time whining, instead of Ascending your chars and be done with it? I don't particularily love the Lab, but what I like about it is that it represents an obstacle to overcome. An obstacle that is different from the rest of the game. Because compared to 100s of hours of easy map grind, the lab is a relatively short experience, but a one that can't be easily bruteforced. Chaining those Gorge rotas require only time, no skill or anything, since it's almost imposible to die in a party. If you like that kind of playstyle, you don't even need to ascend. Besides facerolling, I like a bit of a challenge, and currently PoE is almost devoid of it. Even Uber Lab is "gated" behind RNG luck or trade. Oh, and all that HC/SC distinction is irrelevant. Content is the same in both cases, even tho you dont approach it in the same way. HC is not more challenging, just forces you into a more "conservative" approach. Problem is that this game is full of "HC-lite" players, that are now angry because it got a little more bumpy. When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness |
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So many assumptions, so little understanding.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
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" I hate the labyrinth. We are here because we are trying to make the game better. PoE was my favorite game. So, I'd rather not just uninstall but, I hate the labyrinth and if I'm forced to continue going through the labyrinth then I will stop playing this game. I have already made an oath to myself that I will not make anymore donations until the labyrinth is made optional. Which is mildly upsetting to me because I would really like to have the new currency stash tab. I consider your characterization of us trying to make PoE a better game as whining to be incorrect and mildly insulting. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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" Me too, that's why I support the skill-check Lab. A game where ascend-ancy points were given for free or for doing stuff you'd do anyway, would be a worse game. The Lab is still too easy, becaue it's not solo-only and at least Izaro kills can be bought in trade chat. I'm sorry you feel offended by my characterization. I've been a whiner most of my time here, usually whining about RNG gated endgame, trade-centric design, etc... If GGG doesn't surrender to the pressure and doesn't remove the Lab, I promise I'll donate the sum you wont. (damnit, where is Charan when you need one.. :P) When night falls
She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness |
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