Labyrinth,the worst content ever made in POE?

It's boring as fuck to run tbo. I opted out of the 100 lab runs challenge to do one of the guardians instead.... Sold all 48 of the offerings i found for it.

Personally they should cut down on the number of floors.

Here is my take on an improvement

Entrance Floor Gate = Boss fight 1.
Floor 2 = Trap Gauntlet.
Floor 3 = Boss fight 2.
Floor 4 = Trap Gauntlet
Floor 5 = Final Boss fight.


That would bring it down to 5 rooms instead of 8-9. Less loading screens less chances to time out and dc as well.
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Telzen wrote:
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The_Reporter wrote:
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alhazred70 wrote:
But I expect people like you will win in the end. You certainly are winning right now.


When the donations stop pouring in, we all lose equally.
And you have some proof that they are losing money over the lab? Yeah I thought so.


I do.
Has anyone noticed, that besides the questionable piece of content lab is, its poor design intensified over time? As it follows the usual pattern of content "ageing" in this game - once attractive content becomes obsolete after a chain of ners, and unable to follow the power creep.

Nowadays it's absolutely worthless to run merci lab for anything but ascendancy points. Loot? It's pointless to even open the chests. Enchants? Everyone and anyone already knows that the chance to have an useful enchant is imaginary, and even if once in a blue moon it happens, it will be unrelated to your build. Even the values can't follow the massive power creep.
It's only uber lab rewarding, but most builds can't even put a foot there, especially on HC.

As time passed by, normal/cruel/merci lab turned into an utter annoyance you dislike with passion, but must do, to get your points. And never visit again. Or just once in a while, when bored to death. To get the bitter feeling of yet another useless enchant.
This is a buff © 2016

The Experts ™ 2017
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torturo wrote:
Enchants? Everyone and anyone already knows that the chance to have an useful enchant is imaginary, and even if once in a blue moon it happens, it will be unrelated to your build.


Finish my 100 runs. Does not got one of the five useful helm enchants for my build. And I need a specific unique helm, so I can't by random helm with one of required enchants to roll them for good stats. Oh, yes, price of HOLY SHIT LUCKY ONE helm right now is around 500 chaos.

In previous three leagues I also completed an Izaro challenge and also don't get enchant for my builds.

Enchant system is awful.
E = mc^(OMG)/wtf
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DoEFotGS wrote:
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torturo wrote:
Enchants? Everyone and anyone already knows that the chance to have an useful enchant is imaginary, and even if once in a blue moon it happens, it will be unrelated to your build.


Finish my 100 runs. Does not got one of the five useful helm enchants for my build. And I need a specific unique helm, so I can't by random helm with one of required enchants to roll them for good stats. Oh, yes, price of HOLY SHIT LUCKY ONE helm right now is around 500 chaos.

In previous three leagues I also completed an Izaro challenge and also don't get enchant for my builds.

Enchant system is awful.


Gotta trade for it bro, that is what they intended. Better start farming those lvl 60 gearsets

Oh nvm that they now want you to play SSF
The Hyperbomber for 2.6: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1879383
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Saltygames wrote:
Gotta trade for it bro


Alpha's Howl has no really useful enchants, except aura mana reservation that I want to get. Enchant another helm to trade, then buy Alpha's Howl? Seriously? What's the point? And if during this "trade for" process I got aura reserve on that helm, where this enchant are cost nothing?

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Saltygames wrote:
Oh nvm that they now want you to play SSF


I'll played almost solo, but use trade functions because only few bosses have fixed item drop pool and only few uniques have specific drop requirements like ilvl. Any other - completely random. I will never play solid SSF with pure random drop. Also a helm enchants in SSF - is a something non-existent.
E = mc^(OMG)/wtf
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DoEFotGS wrote:
Also a helm enchants in SSF - is a something non-existent.

Odds of getting something useful depend a lot on your build and how flexible you are. Now if you absolutely want one specific enchant then you have to get lucky and/or do extreme grinding. Getting enough Offerings is prob the harder part.

The pure RNG enchantment system is the worst part of lab.
No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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alhazred70 wrote:
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And1111 wrote:
My opinion is that Labyrinth is the worst content ever made in POE.
When i think that i need to go through this 3 times with every char i make(and i play hc,so prolly many chars this leauge) it makes me cry...


And IMO it's some of the most interesting content the game has to offer in terms of actual RPG D&D feel.

I am maybe not their new shiny "speed clear meta while watching TV" demographic they are actively courting; I admit but solo'ing uber lab last night on a lvl 80 character was some taught exciting (flasks running out in trap heavy areas, going super slow to find some mobs to kill to replenish with 20% health and such) even when I failed to have the DPS to deal with Izzaro solo I found myself wanting to retry which I will do in a few days when my gear is better and I've some more levels.

If you prefer virtual lawn mowing well congrats you appear to be the market they are seeking and you will PROBABLY get your way and the Lab will probably have ascendancies removed from it to become an optional side content that doesn't have enough reward.


You're kidding, right? For the sake of argument, let's say both the Ascendancies and the enchantments are removed from the Uber Lab. Now, with that in mind, please tell me another area of the game that gives you more economic gain per hour than running the Lab.

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Sadly this is the way things are going in all of the world, the lowest common denominator ruins everything. They drink craft beer when it becomes trendy and says "okay but not watery enough" and a million fake craft beers that are Budwieser with a hispter looking label spring up and you win, and all the people who like the real stuff have to weed through all the crap. In gaming terms that means the sort of "Temple run but with build complexity" game that POE seems to be moving towards.

Part of me would like to see Chris Wilson make a public statement about them reaffirming the original design goals and Manifesto's of POE and tell us they will be bringing it back into line of what you would expect of an unapologetically hard core ARPG. But I expect people like you will win in the end. You certainly are winning right now.


You are mistaking correlation for causation. While it is indeed true that so-called casual scrubs also hate the Labyrinth, your characterization of Lab haters vs. Lab lovers as a hardcore-vs.-casual debate is inaccurate, to put it mildly.

So what is it then?

Is it, "I like to get a huge loot piñata after enduring low-reward adversity" vs. "I like to get moderate rewards for fun activity, and no huge reward at the end" ?

Maybe.

Is it, "I like to work for my rewards in a video game" vs. "I like to play for my rewards in a video game" ?

Maybe.

Is it, "I don't like traps, because they are too different from classical quasi-isometric ARPG gameplay and ill-suited to online play" vs. "I like traps, because they represent a revolutionary step forward in the fight against the meta-speed-based gameplay" ?

Maybe.

Or maybe not. The answer isn't as simplistic as you seem to want it to be. And characterizing your opponents in any debate as "the lowest common denominator" will rarely make your argument more compelling. Quite the opposite in fact, even for players who agree with you.
Wash your hands, Exile!
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gibbousmoon wrote:
You are mistaking correlation for causation. While it is indeed true that so-called casual scrubs also hate the Labyrinth, your characterization of Lab haters vs. Lab lovers as a hardcore-vs.-casual debate is inaccurate, to put it mildly.


That's an empty claim. "innacurate to put it midly" is just a fancy way to say "nah anh, is not".

ofc We're both making unsupported assertions, the difference is that mine is plausable (i.e. the people who least like Lab are the less skilled more casual player who like virtual lawn mowing clear speed meta) where as you are implying that skilled hard core gamers are the ones making these whine threads which is not very plausible.

I base my opinion on reading countless examples of people talking about dieing in traps not liking traps and hating the need to slow down or backtrack. I find the traps to be pretty easy in almost all cases unless I get into a jam with flasks and make it interesting. So the sentiment that traps are something to complain about or a failed design element can only make sense to me if the complainer is not good enough at piloting and movement skilling through them (it really is terrifically easy to trivialize the traps with movement skills, which I actually find disappointing, to the point where if I'm solo I will deliberately try to do the traps the way they intended) to make them easy enough in most cases, hell trivial most of the time.

Yours is the very first time I've read anyone suppose that hard core gamers are the ones who make these threads. I've seen very little evidence of that. Statements like "It's not hard enough" and "there aren't enough traps that make me fearful" are not common sentiments in these threads. Also as you yourself point out farming lab is very lucrative (and yes I'm wrong I didn't think about how lucrative currency/helm enchants can make Lab when I said unrewarding side content, you are correct on that score). Yet I see almost no calls for currency drops to be nerfed and almost no "I hate lab" threads start with "it's just making me too rich".


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gibbousmoon wrote:

Is it, "I like to work for my rewards in a video game" vs. "I like to play for my rewards in a video game" ?


Almost? It is subjective, but in my case its more: I like to have compelling reasons to continue to play the game and areas that are a change of pace from the norm and perhaps more challenging than vanilla content appeal to me.

I think the Lab is well crafted from a game design standpoint. And I enjoy it. I would submit that lots of people do, or just are "meh" about it. Though I think it could use more tilesets and maybe marry it with Decent race format for a real Rogue-like content area. People who are ripping GGG on it seem to be just vindictive sorts who demonize anything they can't faceroll.


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gibbousmoon wrote:

Or maybe not. The answer isn't as simplistic as you seem to want it to be. And characterizing your opponents in any debate as "the lowest common denominator" will rarely make your argument more compelling. Quite the opposite in fact, even for players who agree with you.


Just calling it as I see it. A lot of times the truth of a matter is unflattering. This is one of those times. The general tone of these threads is almost always whining about having to do content that isn't the same old Dried Lake walking simulator. For the same reason that everyone wants to run Strand, and Gorge maps, and other linear, no thinking, no doors, No dead ends, Temple Run map. These threads are just rife with people who clearly only want linear lawn mowing gameplay and anything outside that is demonized called a "failure" and characterized as annoying.

One thing I've learned reading forums (BB's, Usenet, web forums) for games over the years, "annoying" is almost always casual gamer code for "not easy" Raids and complex boss battles in games like ARPG's and MMO's that require skills are almost always called "annoying" in whine threads like these. The content that no one calls annoying is almost always the stuff that's faceroll for casual gamers. What does everyone love in POE? Dried lake until 80, strand, shore, gorge... Are you really going to argue these points because I'm blunt and don't feel like being politic about them?


"only 10% of players care about melee" - Aesop's Fox if he was a GGG dev
"when you die in this game, typically you're getting one shot, you're dieing in one frame; almost always" -Ben_
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DoEFotGS wrote:
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torturo wrote:
Enchants? Everyone and anyone already knows that the chance to have an useful enchant is imaginary, and even if once in a blue moon it happens, it will be unrelated to your build.


Finish my 100 runs. Does not got one of the five useful helm enchants for my build. And I need a specific unique helm, so I can't by random helm with one of required enchants to roll them for good stats. Oh, yes, price of HOLY SHIT LUCKY ONE helm right now is around 500 chaos.

In previous three leagues I also completed an Izaro challenge and also don't get enchant for my builds.

Enchant system is awful.


Not Disagreeing with anything you guys are saying but i have found the best method of getting the chant you are looking for in particular is to chant on something useful to many builds for starters and then anything good that many people will be running such as Discharge, EQ, Lacerate, TS, ST, Flurry, BF, ect sell those off and that way you can not only afford to buy your specific chant for your build you can also make A LOT of profit all while farming for your chant. And you never know you might get lucky and hit your chant as well in the process but either way this seems to be the most effective way of getting the chant you want.

Of Course then there's the issue of you wanting a certain chant on a certain item than maybe not a lot of people will be doing in those cases then even this method wont help much. Something i prefer is to hit random items i have ideas of building around with chants till i hit something interesting and make a build around the chant and item instead of making a build that needs a special item and chant. Works out better this way but then again a lot of my builds start out with an item or idea and end up wherever they lead to from there. Which sometimes isn't even what i had in mind to start with. But yeah otherwise if you are looking for very particular chants on certain niche items it can feel next to impossible to get the chant your looking for. And the worst part is a lot of those chants are quite powerful and can make quite a difference in a build as well.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing something like a popup of maybe 2 or 3 chants at a time to choose from which would make it a little easier to get the chant you're looking for. Or maybe even some sort of currency sink involving rerolling the chant a second time or something to that effect one idea i seen on reddit involved using the treasure keys to reroll the chant which isn't a bad idea.. Make a choice open the boxes for random loot or use the keys for extra tries at chants. Or maybe even add another mechanic of some sort like items to be found in the lab run much like the keys that give extra ties at rerolling chants a couple times. Biggest issue is there's just so many enchants that the chances of getting the chant you're looking for is a small fraction when you're rolling against so many chants. And only getting one shot each run without loading up the prophecy every single run gets to be a bit much imo.
There is a fine line between Consideration and Hesitation.
The former is Wisdom, the latter is Fear.
Last edited by Demonoz#1375 on Feb 6, 2017, 9:57:11 PM

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