Donald Trump

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solwitch wrote:

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Raycheetah wrote:

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solwitch wrote:

This country it's roads the very same highways I drive... The cement I walk on. The gardens I traverse... All have history of a person who's family immigrated here. To have the Statue of Liberty still stand and have Trump be elected president the USA would be an oxymoron.

My ancestors came to the United States as immigrants from Eastern Europe. They were processed at Ellis Island. My uncle still has the notebooks great grandfather used to learn English (uncle was using them in reverse, to learn Magyar). Those ancestors entered the country lawfully, with the determined intent to learn the language and to assimilate into the culture, not to create a colony of the old country, but to become Americans.

To paint Donald Trump as counter to Liberty simply because he wants to stop illegal immigration, the importation of poverty into a country already which already suffers economic burdens of its own, is an INSULT to my ancestors, and to every immigrant, past or present, who lawfully entered the US.
=>[.]<=

I highly doubt everyone during that era came in legally. But that's not the point. Your ancestors came to America to better their lives. "Illegal immigration," shouldn't exist. The wall he is building is more insulting to our ancestors than a pregnant woman trying to cross a border so her child can have a better future. I wouldn't place spaniards or Anglo Saxons on a moral pedestal. After all human nature is to pillage and plunder.

The media is to blame for the misconstrued suppose ideologies of trump. The media seems to "..." Many of his arguments. For the uneducated average American they will interpret everything literally. The most amazing part of all of this; the majority of stock-share holders, insurance holders and pharmaceutical companies are owned by middle eastern princes. Ironically in a democratic country...

I won't vote for Trump... I'm bias. I want to see a female president. That's the only reason.

That's as piss-poor a reason to vote for someone as the color of their skin. =>[.]<=

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SkyCore wrote:

It is all bullshit. Immigrants dont occupy a single good job.

Do $20-30 an hour jobs when the average wage in an area is $11 an hour count?

IMO - when you are making 2x - 3x the average wage in an area and paying no income taxes, or social security taxes, you can pretty much call that a good job.

That isn't to say that the majority of good jobs are occupied by illegal immigrants - far from it.

But the "dont occupy a single good job" part is patently false. It would be easy to photograph about 200 such people in a couple days without driving 50ft out of my regular work route. If I wanted to drive about 5 miles out of my usual work route, over the course of a week, I could photograph 2,000 such workers occupying good skilled labor jobs. The last estimate by our city that I saw was around 9,500 such skilled highly paid undocumented workers that weren't in the system (aka paying any income taxes etc).

These aren't jobs that other people don't want to do either. With no income tax, social security taxes, no payroll taxes, no workers liability costs and no health care costs, these skilled workers can and do underbid legal workers on a regular basis.

About 2-3 times a year, a token effort is made by I.C.E. where they round up some of them and then go back to doing their ICE paperwork. The last time there was a roundup, one of the immigrants pulled a weapon and fired at ICE, so the whole block was on lockdown and ICE brought in some RYDER rental trucks to round up every single one of them.

I don't have anything against the people wanting to come here to work.

I do have something against people who try to pretend there isn't a cause and effect on the labor market.

We need more workers in the USA than we are producing via birth rates.

We are getting more additional workers in than we need for the economy.

It is a very simple equation. If someone can't understand it, I suggest the following experiment.

Take a 5 gallon bucket, and add a bottle of red food coloring.

Open the stopper on your bathroom sink.

Now DUMP the 5 gallon bucket into the sink all at once.

Now write a 500 word essay explaining how the sink was bigoted because it couldn't contain all the red water at once, yet it has handled hundreds of gallons of non-red water before.

........

Granted, I can' say what YOU consider a "good" job, but I'd guess that for a large chunk of the country, someone making 60-85 thousand a year is a good job, especially when that money is tax free.

Consider also that a nominal percentage of those are also getting free health care (just show up at your local emergency room) and food benefits if there any children in the family.

The use of food credit first and then paying the remaining $200 grocery bill in cash just might be a sign that something is wacky with our system.

That a person can come here penniless, be officially unemployed and within 5-10 years buy their own house, might be another sign that something is wacky with our system.


It isn't the immigrants fault that they want (or desperately need in many cases) to come here and find a way to financially survive.

It is our government's fault that we have left in place a broken system that doesn't allow anywhere near enough legal immigrants, and does nothing to control the flow of illegal immigration.

TL/DR - a large chunk of people who think it isn't an issue, have zero clue on what is actually happening, or the real costs to the economy.

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SkyCore wrote:

It is all bullshit. Immigrants dont occupy a single good job.

Gonna go ahead and stop you there, because clearly you have never heard the term H1-B. My office has a growing section we refer to (lovingly) as "Little India"; every single one of them was brought over to replace a much better paid, much more qualified software engineer/app developer.

As an IT guy, immigration is very much on my mind.

That being said, I am not afraid of them. They came here to better themselves, they aren't criminals. I feel the same way about blue collar Mexican immigrants. Nicest fucking people I've ever met... always willing to share food, talk it up, bend over backwards for you. Immigrants fucking rule. It just sucks that they drive down wages.

@Raycheetah

Everyone voted for Obama because everyone wanted a black president. He won a Nobel prize for being a black president. Sorry too many years without a female president. Hillary better get a Nobel prize for being our first female president. I would vote for any female as president... What you call prejudice I call preference. I prefer a female president because I believe in equality.

Women have been suppressed for far too long and men have had it way too easy. Men are the ones that create the drama. Name one female that conquered another civilization because of its riches? None... Not one. Granted we've had in history female rulers but if anything she was attacked first.

Marie Curie should of been president, Rosa Parks, Princess Diana, Mother Teresa... But because men have to be inclusive, seperate everything into levels etc... Creates problems. I hate a masochist. If you ever seen the movie American Psycho in which the men were comparing their business cards that is so beyond true it's not funny...

Men... Blah.

^Trudeau is that you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_6ue_spYQQ

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solwitch wrote:

@Raycheetah

Women have been suppressed for far too long and men have had it way too easy. Men are the ones that create the drama. Name one female that conquered another civilization because of its riches? None... Not one. Granted we've had in history female rulers but if anything she was attacked first.

The following ladies would like a word with you:

Zenobia of Palmyra: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenobia#Invasions_of_Egypt_and_Anatolia

Semiramis of Babylon (famous for subjugating neighboring states): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiramis#Historical_figure

Tamar of Georgia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_of_Georgia#Foreign_policy_and_military_campaigns

And plenty enough others exist, if you care to do the research. A vagina is not an automatic grant of higher human nature. ='[.]'=

Bah. I speak of illegal aliens, and the one time i dont fully qualify immigrant with 'illegal' you see it as an opening to show me how wrong i am. You are so desperate to propigate the memes youve learned in politics. It's truly a shame you cant step back and see it all the way i do. Ive tried. Is it my fault for not being an 'authority' so you will actually accept what i say? Is it my fault for not expressing the truth with enough conviction to MAKE you accept it? Is it my fault for not establishing a friendship so you dont automatically dismiss everything iv said? No, no, and no. You are just beyond hope.

This is the kind of stuff that can't be solved without solid evidence. I've seen contradictory evidence though (so people are being fairly emotional about it to get good conclusions). Yet I would bet my leg and say that the dysfunctional immigration laws are what create this situation to begin with.

I'll repost this. It's a refutation of Trump's platform from an economic standpoint, it has links to many studies about immigration. Make conclusions about it.

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SkyCore wrote:

Bah. I speak of illegal aliens, and the one time i dont fully qualify immigrant with 'illegal' you see it as an opening to show me how wrong i am. You are so desperate to propigate the memes youve learned in politics. It's truly a shame you cant step back and see it all the way i do. Ive tried. Is it my fault for not being an 'authority' so you will actually accept what i say? Is it my fault for not expressing the truth with enough conviction to MAKE you accept it? Is it my fault for not establishing a friendship so you dont automatically dismiss everything iv said? No, no, and no. You are just beyond hope.

But you're wrong, even the commie Bernie Sanders sees that. He says that immigration drives down wages so USA has to secure borders. He's literally on Trump's side there, just less media-baity.

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Xavderion wrote:

But you're wrong, even the commie Bernie Sanders sees that. He says that immigration drives down wages so USA has to secure borders. He's literally on Trump's side there, just less media-baity.

Its not about immigration. It's not about jobs. It's about blame. Blame and hate. It's about villainizing broad categories of people. Dehumanization. Perhaps i didnt make that clear enough.

It's a poisonous message. And i didnt think many people realize the extent of the repurcussions of internalizing it are. It is a disease of the soul.

The benefit of ALL of mankind should be the highest priority. This negative labeling of individuals (whom are not detrimental to the whole) is counter productive to this paramount goal. Our societal systems are fundamentally broken. We have enough food and space for everyone, but our capitalistic systems deny it... and the victims are blamed. The true fault lies at those whom cling to obsolete systems instead of changing the it. The future looks mighty grim as we approach a level of technological advancement in which labor is no longer needed. But it's even worse to NOT automate out of fear of destroying the social construct known as 'work'.