Sheer Frustration: 27 5L's later, no 6L...... Yes, Twenty-fucking-Seven 5L's.

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kasub wrote:

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morbo wrote:

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raics wrote:

Ok, 6L and necessity of such aside, I spent three stacks of alts trying to roll a staunching flask yesterday, it's not even funny, you just can't play without those.

I find extremely difficult to roll of warding, which is a 100% essential mod. It took me once 100+ alts to get it...

Piece of advice, just transmute the base type you want instead of wasting alterations. It's what's people who sell flasks end up doing.

Thanks, but I don't sell flasks so it wouldn't really be worth the bother and it usually doesn't take so many alts, it just feels extremely annoying when it does... which is what this thread and many others are about, in other words - "is all this absolutely necessary?"

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

This this and this some more. 6L is not supposed to be the Norm, 4L is, with 5L High End, and 6L being the Top of the line.

is it a bit crazy, yes maybe, but it needs to be, otherwise why not just have items ALL drop max socketed and linked for everyone.

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

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MasterAxe wrote:

This this and this some more. 6L is not supposed to be the Norm, 4L is, with 5L High End, and 6L being the Top of the line.

is it a bit crazy, yes maybe, but it needs to be, otherwise why not just have items ALL drop max socketed and linked for everyone.

I don't know. I'm playing since December, and what I learned is that some players react really bad to things being arbitrarily scarce. And to bad luck streaks that doesn't seem to end.

You say that the items should be a luxury like some kind of dogma. I guess in the past it was true, but now maybe it isn't. Why should be that way? What kind of things are truly acceptable as scarce?

Does someone here actually feel motivated to play because one day you could have a luxury item?

I couldn't care less about 6L, but with the power creep and the end game challenges, lately, it seems less a luxury, and more like neccessity to play safe part of the content.

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NeroNoah wrote:

You say that the items should be a luxury like some kind of dogma. I guess in the past it was true, but now maybe it isn't. Why should be that way? What kind of things are truly acceptable as scarce?

Does someone here actually feel motivated to play because one day you could have a luxury item?

I couldn't care less about 6L, but with the power creep and the end game challenges, lately, it seems less a luxury, and more like neccessity to play safe part of the content.

The extremely rare keeps many people moving forward because they appreciate the normal rares along the way.

The end game power creep doesn't revolve around a 6L, it revolves around the most efficient ways to mitigate elemental damage.

One thing I like about the 5L stage on my characters is that I find myself gem swapping far more to adapt to what area I go into. Once/If I get the character to the 6L stage I find myself doing that less often, kind of dumbs down the game but helps people face roll without thinking as much which seems to be the common goal of threads like these.

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Worldbreaker wrote:

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NeroNoah wrote:

You say that the items should be a luxury like some kind of dogma. I guess in the past it was true, but now maybe it isn't. Why should be that way? What kind of things are truly acceptable as scarce?

Does someone here actually feel motivated to play because one day you could have a luxury item?

I couldn't care less about 6L, but with the power creep and the end game challenges, lately, it seems less a luxury, and more like neccessity to play safe part of the content.

The extremely rare keeps many people moving forward because they appreciate the normal rares along the way.

The end game power creep doesn't revolve around a 6L, it revolves around the most efficient ways to mitigate elemental damage.

One thing I like about the 5L stage on my characters is that I find myself gem swapping far more to adapt to what area I go into. Once/If I get the character to the 6L stage I find myself doing that less often, kind of dumbs down the game but helps people face roll without thinking as much which seems to be the common goal of threads like these.

Fair enough.

Still, hearing stories about people that try to get a 6L (or sometimes even a 5L) is just too painful, because it's not like they are not investing currency to achieve it...

It's just a little unintuitive which things should be scarce and why. The luck factor just pisses off more people even, because this game makes it really hard to play to the large number law... Maybe I'm not experienced enough to apreciate this though...

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Worldbreaker wrote:

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NeroNoah wrote:

You say that the items should be a luxury like some kind of dogma. I guess in the past it was true, but now maybe it isn't. Why should be that way? What kind of things are truly acceptable as scarce?

Does someone here actually feel motivated to play because one day you could have a luxury item?

I couldn't care less about 6L, but with the power creep and the end game challenges, lately, it seems less a luxury, and more like neccessity to play safe part of the content.

The extremely rare keeps many people moving forward because they appreciate the normal rares along the way.

The end game power creep doesn't revolve around a 6L, it revolves around the most efficient ways to mitigate elemental damage.

One thing I like about the 5L stage on my characters is that I find myself gem swapping far more to adapt to what area I go into. Once/If I get the character to the 6L stage I find myself doing that less often, kind of dumbs down the game but helps people face roll without thinking as much which seems to be the common goal of threads like these.

Fair enough.

Still, hearing stories about people that try to get a 6L (or sometimes even a 5L) is just too painful, because it's not like they are not investing currency to achieve it...

It's just a little unintuitive which things should be scarce and why. The luck factor just pisses off more people even, because this game makes it really hard to play to the large number law... Maybe I'm not experienced enough to apreciate this though...

Well that is the price people pay when they gamble to get an item cheaper than buying them. Trading is a guaranteed result no matter the excuse of not using it. The crafting system exploits people's gambling problems. To a larger scale I could've not saved for a down payment for my house that someone else put a value on and just kept going to the casino hoping for a big payout.

My all time favorite lines in these threads are "with what I spent I could've bought x item y times"

Then why didn't you?

To me there is no difference between saving for an item vs making one at the same cost. Maybe it's the allure of making one cheaper, or pride in craftsmanship, but if I win on a scratch lotto ticket I don't feel that pride and those are identical to me. (Crafting via orbs= gambling)

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Worldbreaker wrote:

Well that is the price people pay when they gamble to get an item cheaper than buying them. Trading is a guaranteed result no matter the excuse of not using it. The crafting system exploits people's gambling problems. To a larger scale I could've not saved for a down payment for my house that someone else put a value on and just kept going to the casino hoping for a big payout.

My all time favorite lines in these threads are "with what I spent I could've bought x item y times"

Then why didn't you?

To me there is no difference between saving for an item vs making one at the same cost. Maybe it's the allure of making one cheaper, or pride in craftsmanship, but if I win on a scratch lotto ticket I don't feel that pride and those are identical to me. (Crafting via orbs= gambling)

The game hardly serves to the crowd that likes to use their drops. Craftmanship could be great. I hope the next patch improves this aspect, as rumored...

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CliveHowlitzer wrote:

It is almost like the 6L is meant to be a hard to achieve luxury item instead of the standard.

Clive is technically correct. Given the vast amount of people on these forums who act like a 6L is their birthright, it's not surprising this quote gets a huge amount of support earlier in this thread.

However, both sides of that debate are irrelevant. It's not about whether or not players are entitled to get their 6L or not. It's about what type of system is used to get there.

The difference between bad RNG and good RNG is not in the probabilities assigned to each outcome, but in the quality of the various outcomes themselves. A good RNG system gives you commons and uncommons and rares and ultra-hard-to-get-rares, but it does so in a way where the common result is not strictly inferior to the less common results.

An example of good RNG from outside Path of Exile are Magic the Gathering cards. Sure, the rares and "mythic rares" in that game are plenty powerful, but there are still numerous commons which are used in even the highest-level competition, ranging from Elvish Mystic to Pestermite to the basic Plains. It's a situation where being rare is generally a good sign of power, but you don't want rare every time.

An example of good RNG from inside Path of Exile is how Exalted Orbs work. Sure, Exalts are expensive, but when you apply them you might get something good that you didn't even know you wanted. Maybe you wanted even more ES on your ES chest, but instead you get a very high life roll. Suddenly it's a pretty epic Eldritch Battery chest, so even though you didn't get what you wanted, you still got something useful and possibly valuable.

Fusings are just a plain old bad RNG system. If you currently have a 5L chest, the only possible outcome you can get with Fusings which is an upgrade is a 6L chest. There's no way to surprise you into something which is good but not what you wanted. I mean, there's not even enough diversity to actually justify a random system! There's only six possible outcomes really, all of which can be put in a strict superiority line, one behind the other.

If you think the specific probability you assign to each value is what really matters here, you're wrong. If people think that's what's bothering them, then they only mean it in the sense of desiring the quickest possible exit from a poorly designed system — not in the sense of the quickest possible acquisition of a highly valuable item. I don't think anyone here is actually arguing that a 6L is either not valued or not useful. All they are is frustrated while they feel compelled to utilize a Fusing RNG system which causes nothing but frustration.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

All they are is frustrated while they feel compelled to utilize a Fusing RNG system which causes nothing but frustration.

They have given us 3 methods to obtain a 6L and most choose the masochistic option, then complain about the bleeding.