Legacy items

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deteego wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

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deteego wrote:

OP items cause you to farm much faster than you should, which inflates the economy

?

Should GGG put a cap on how much currency, items or experience a player should be able to gain per day? Say 3 uniques, 1 exalts worth and 20 million XP max per day?

Or do you mean a player should only be allowed to make/join a certain number of instances per hour - say one joined or made every 20 minutes?

If you are NOT suggesting there "should" be a cap, than what do you mean about farming faster than they "should"?

From what I can tell, the fastest way to acquire wealth in PoE doesn't require a single legacy item. You can flip currency and items without a Shavronne's, a Kaom's or a Soul Taker.

The most efficient way to farm items is by using legacy items, or at least the OP ones. Thats why they get nerfed, because they are too strong

Very good example is stacking MF on the pre legacy shavronns for totem sporkers

I don't think they were nerfed because they allowed faster farming.

The broken magic finding farming method was mainly due to dual sporking, not legacy items.

From what I have seen, GGG wants to encourage character build diversity. The uniques that were nerfed were so much more powerful than anything else that people weren't really using other gear if they had a choice.

The same was true of the Poison Arrow nerf - it wasn't broken as a magic finding, or over powered skill, but at lower levels it was the defacto choice for anyone racing.

The first unique to be nerfed - Silverbranch, was also changed because of the way it affected racing. IIRC, there weren't any other uniques nerfed when it was changed, and Silverbranch certainly isn't a big magic finding item.

The Shavronne's you mentioned used to have a possible +250% top ES mod (Yielding 490 with perfect ES roll - before quality). The "Nerfed" version has a cap of 200%- yielding a potential 420 ES roll before quality.

That 70 ES is not going to make or break a well built high level magic finding character.

What made Shavronne's so universally coveted and used was the "Chaos Damage does not bypass Energy Shield" mod. This allowed magic finding ES based characters to go low life (and thus use Wondertrap boots and gain an additional 100% magic find. Without this special mod (which many people howled about the moment it was released) an ES based character had to pick up Chaos Immunity if they wanted to survive.

The new Shavronne's has the same mod, as does the Solaris Lorica.

Kaom's Heart took a big hit, as did Rainbow Strides (20% resist all vs 8%), Soul Taker, Thunderfist and Silver Branch. Facebreakers and Auxium took a medium sized hit, and the rest were very minor changes (top of 16 on onyx amulets instead of 20 for instance).

Look at it from another perspective - when I took a quick look at PoeXYZ, there were 33 legacy Kaom Heart's for sale. If the legacy armor was so much better and guaranteed to increase in price, why are people selling them instead of hanging on to them longer?

As for effects on the economy - other than the legacy items themselves, the increased magic finding due to their "OP" nature actually DEFLATED the economy. Increased rarity primarily means more rares and uniques - which drops their prices.

Inflation would have occurred if the legacy items meant a lot more "quantity" mods were being used. Rainbow Strides- for instance - No quantity and the resistance boost is far less value than the 30% quantity boost of Goldwyrm.

Kaom's Heart wasn't nerfed because of magic finding, but because GGG was changing the way monster damage and player life was scaled. Players across the board got a survivability boost, thus decreasing the actual usefulness of a Kaom's Heart compared to a very nice 6 link.

Let's say Kaom's wasn't nerfed and you could choose ANY armor on POE (rare or otherwise) but you could never sell it. Would you still choose a Kaom's over the 'perfect" six link?

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

But when there is a powerful item, that CANT be dropped or crafted anymore, i just CANT accept it. It isnt right!

People living in Spain can participate in the biggest lottery in the world (El Gordo). People who don't live in Spain, CAN'T participate. Should the rest of the world say they just CAN'T accept that? Should we say it just isn't right! that they have that lottery option and take it away from them?

Should we burn the Mona Lisa because no one else can get one now? Should the pyramids be demolished because other cities can't acquire their own?

Should Path of Exile be banned from the internet because we have skill choices that Diablo 3 players just CAN'T have?

Legacy items did not turn any people into newts and they are not witches to be burned just because someone weighs them against a duck.

If you don't understand the logic of that, then you will appreciate my frustration in trying to find the logic in the "Legacy must be nerfed NOW!" side.

^Not true. Every country/city/museum has something unique. Does any player has something legacy? No.

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DalaiLama wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

But when there is a powerful item, that CANT be dropped or crafted anymore, i just CANT accept it. It isnt right!

People living in Spain can participate in the biggest lottery in the world (El Gordo). People who don't live in Spain, CAN'T participate. Should the rest of the world say they just CAN'T accept that? Should we say it just isn't right! that they have that lottery option and take it away from them?

Should we burn the Mona Lisa because no one else can get one now? Should the pyramids be demolished because other cities can't acquire their own?

Should Path of Exile be banned from the internet because we have skill choices that Diablo 3 players just CAN'T have?

Legacy items did not turn any people into newts and they are not witches to be burned just because someone weighs them against a duck.

If you don't understand the logic of that, then you will appreciate my frustration in trying to find the logic in the "Legacy must be nerfed NOW!" side.

No logic in that. People can play lottery in other countries.. Paintings? No painter/artist paints the same painting. Each country has something special, not just the Egyptians. We can play other games, regardless of whether PoE exists or not.

There are bigger problems in the game, than the Legacy items. Spending over 1000 Fuse orbs and not be able to get 6L is one of them. But that's a different matter.

Actually, i'd say legacies are the #2 problem behind desynch. You guys just need to remember, GGG developed this game to be what they'd want to play themselves. Who doesn't want to play a game in which items that other players have are completely unattainable through legitimate means? Noob QQ'ers, of course, and this game doesn't need any of those. It was all done as a matter of fairness, and totally not to create items with an astronomically high relative price value. Totally not that. Look over that way!

Are you suggesting to start another qq thread about desync or something? :)

Another will be started regardless I'm sure.

I don't mean to attack anybody's integrity. I just don't wholly believe the technical reasons for why legacies exist. As for whether or not they are intrinsically harmful to the game, I can answer 'most definitely'.

It ruins the very notion of 'economy' when only a few items player's perceive as on the nerf chopping-block maintain value. I remember when Rime Gaze used to cost exalts, now they're one chaos. Daresso's Defiance is a great item, as is Wing of Entropy, facebreaker, etc., but since they aren't seen as due for a nerf their value is in freefall. Every count of item in that 'useful but probably not nerfable' reduces it's value fractionally until it reaches margins of zero and the 'sure to be nerfed' items just keep rising in price. Not just the existence of past legacies, but the notion of certainty that future legacies will be created plays havoc on player behavior and a functional barter economy.

How are you supposed to acquire wealth through the sale of mid-tier items when they have no value? I can't ever sell a thing in this game. I've been trying to sell a Wings of Entropy that's already 4linked and 20% quality for 12 chaos and can't. It's depressing.

Oh, well, I'd say trading system is the #3 problem behind desynch and legacies.
It will be solved with the new trading system, hopefully.

Another jealously thread.

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deteego wrote:

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tramshed wrote:

legacies were never meant to be exclusive

Then why did they make legacy items?

Im fairly surprised people are still trying to figure this out.

Didn't you read the post by Rhys. Its mainly (like 90%) due to technical reasons. In order to remove legacy items, GGG would have to shutdown the game for an extended period of time and write a script for every item as a migration

The issue with legacy items has always been technical, not design

and you believe that? i have a nice, brand new bridge for sale for you! cheap! first owner!

to the point:

you take a test env, populate it with 'hot' data (most probably poe uses hot and cold model for data storing so accounts that are long gone are not in the most accessed/backuped/mirrored etc db) or sample of it (size of the sameple can be calculated quite accurately due to something called statistics). run the script. profile it. (revert and repeat several times to see if there are no i/o interactions - possible when run on rented infra that is tailored for 'typical' use) sub the test numbers (number of records, number of predicted records requiring change) with real realm numbers, calculate downtime. add 2times the time for rollback (databases have safe rollbacks you know) or backup. this can be done anytime without affecting realm in any way.

if you dont want downtime you add 'no trade' flag to all players, kick the realm off so people can play but they can only trade after their items have been scanned and replaced. game impact (technical) of such change is minimal. flag is necessary so people cannot somehow dodge it by keeping item on the ground or whatnot. done. (or even better - alter players item on logout..) scripts for actual data manipulation are a trivial stuff and i wonder why these were mentioned at all. if game company can host very nice infra of such size effectively (and poe infra is amazingly stable) talking about scripts being an obstacle is weird


first lesson - this is IT, databases and coding. when someone says 'it cant be done' in code it is mostly untrue.