what is the point of filler mods.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

in my opinion 2.8 life regen at level one is not all that important. if you are in a situation where you ran out of life potions at level one and need to kite something while that 2.8 life regen heals away taking 40 seconds to heal you to full. you are terrible.

yes even in races , which coincidentally i appear to have roughly 10 times as much experience playing than you , unless you purposely have an alt account for forum arguments.

You know PvP is still a thing, and is going to be an even bigger thing in this game, right? How overpowered is someone going to be in a 11-20 bracket with combined 25 Life Regen per second? Or someone will start stacking 50 Thorns damage per hit in the 20's bracket, and people are going to cry for a nerf. Maybe this game is still very much a work in progress, and you're complaining (yes, you're still complaining) about something they do, in fact, have plans for. They're not going to take it out just because you want the game to be easier. It's not even that hard in the first place.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

peace frog and sinn have a history of derailing my threads

I'm not trying to pick on you bro. You're just very adamant in defending several ideas in a row that I disagree with. And it's our slow season at work, so I generally get paid to dick around on the internet instead of being productive :D I keep hoping our conversations will lead to something productive, but GGG is never going to take you seriously with that grammar #CheapShot :P

"

Peenk wrote:

Another false sense of diversity.. I mentioned this on another thread, people complain about the itemization on Diablo 3 when it's worse on this game rofl.. The only stats that matter on weapons are crit/%roll and a flat roll, nothing unique at all. Armour is shit without life and res, absolutely fuck all diversity.

Perform a web search for Chaos Inoculation. That alone makes the game more diverse than the almighty (and my personal GOAT game) Diablo 2.

"

Peace_Frog wrote:

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

in my opinion 2.8 life regen at level one is not all that important. if you are in a situation where you ran out of life potions at level one and need to kite something while that 2.8 life regen heals away taking 40 seconds to heal you to full. you are terrible.

yes even in races , which coincidentally i appear to have roughly 10 times as much experience playing than you , unless you purposely have an alt account for forum arguments.

You know PvP is still a thing, and is going to be an even bigger thing in this game, right? How overpowered is someone going to be in a 11-20 bracket with combined 25 Life Regen per second? Or someone will start stacking 50 Thorns damage per hit in the 20's bracket, and people are going to cry for a nerf. Maybe this game is still very much a work in progress, and you're complaining (yes, you're still complaining) about something they do, in fact, have plans for. They're not going to take it out just because you want the game to be easier. It's not even that hard in the first place.

Because, you know how overpowered 0.4% life regen per second passive node is.

The point is, only those few mods are COMPLETELY useless, and there are lots of way to make them usable, not overpowered, distinguish that.

Again about the easier... still waiting for an explanation of the "easier" part you guys were talking about.

A bit of a necro, but I had to respond -

"

tinko92 wrote:

Again about the easier... still waiting for an explanation of the "easier" part you guys were talking about.

My argument is that by changing the mod pool to contain only "useful" or "usable" effects then you are immediately turning every single rare item in the game into something that is able to add/ramp the power of any/all toon(s). Even if you were to get a "bad" roll for your current build (say only 3 of the mods are truly supportive of your build, but the other 3 are still "useful") you can still slap it on and likely not have to compensate for the gear change anywhere else. I can easily see situations where stacking selected "off mods" for certain builds would lead to game-breaking synergies.

If everything is of some benefit, then there are no drawbacks, and there are no limitations. I like having certain constraints, boundaries, and rules. Accomplishment comes from overcoming, not overpowering. Theorycrafting, problem solving, and min/maxing "around" some of the currently "useless" mods is part of the challenge of the game, embrace it rather than rage against it.

And then, let's look at some of the proposals made:

stackable %-based Thorns: right, because every AR based melee in the game wouldn't stack this as high as possible while making use of

increased levels of life regen on gear: because there aren't enough ways to refill the red ball already

% based (and I'm pretty sure OP's thought was stackable) damage adds to replace flat damage adds: again, no, abusively OP

Power creep is bad, OP's ideas would promote power creep.

Other suggestions in the thread to lock mod tiers to ilvl/mlvl would also lead to power creep, as every item you find as you progress content will be, essentially, an upgrade (at the very least it could never be "worse" than what you currently wear, although it may not suit the build as well).


The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that OP had an idea for a build that is not at all viable under current game mechanics (high reflect, low-life, slow weapon with high base damage off which to scale gear based damage adds), and came up with a decently veiled argument for the validity of such by promoting a change to the mod pool. Props to OP for the attempt.

I have to emphasize that I am just dumbfounded at the mindset that would look at an item with 3/6 or 4/6 useful mods and call it "trash" because it might also contain either low or "useless" rolls. That smacks of elitism, snobbery, and laziness (only want the best because you CBA to problem solve around sub-optimal). The "trash" mods exist to add another layer of complexity to the game, asking for the said changes would remove that complexity, and simplify the game.

No and no.

The only mods that are useful to me are following: armour mods, physical damage mods, life mods, resistance mods, block mods, movement speed mods, leech mods, attribute mods.

Any other is completely useless to me, BUT, it's useful to someone else.

To whom are these filler mods useful now? To no one.

Would people start grabbing buffed filler mods instantly at the expense of, lets say, resistance mod if that what they need? No, only the ones who find that buffed more useful than the one they had before.

These buffed filler mods would allow more builds to exist, they would still be useless to most of the people.


Maybe they should make new mods instead of regen one, I could agree with that, but this bullshit ones are just embarrassing for the maker of them.


The point is, there is a way to make absolutely all mods useful to someone.

@ sinn
I am not convinced of that,

no matter what happens to these mods , be it they are removed or they are buffed. Or hell even if they stay the same.


it will not change the fact that items can only have a max of 6 mods , and by extension power creep is largely negated by simple fact that there are more useful and sought after mods in the pool as is then there are mod slots.

A good example is the often sought after "GG" armor type which is your combination of


3 resists
life
and preferably
2 armor rolls.

that is 6 slots full already.

making thorns or life on hit or life regen viable will not change that fact.
So in order to take a buffed thorns mod , or a buffed regen mod, you would need to lose one of those other good mods.

power level is still maintained , AND depending on build preference , power is even lost.

also , i have no interest in making a reflect build.
so your assumption is not correct in that regard.

I really did just post this thread because i felt that having mods like these in the game served no purpose.

if nothing else , i wish for you to understand that as my chief motivation.



and again , you seem to think that what i want is to have an item with 100% perfect mods.
which is not what i want.

i just want things like regen to be useful , some of the time

so that when i get a drop that has those "3/6" or "4/6" mods

one of those mods can happen to be thorns or life regen.

you act as if every crap item happens to roll with thorns or life regen. and that changing those two mods would some how magically make every item in the game 6/6 viable.

that is an unrealistic conclusion that completely excludes the possibility of still getting LOW rolls of mods EVEN IF said mods are buffed to have useable versions.


that is why i don't understand you , none of your worries have any actually grounding in reality

its like you are desperately trying to defend every mechanic in the game , while at the same time casually ignoring the capabilities of said mechanics to balance things like this change out.

it is baffling.


you need to have a little more faith in the resilience of ggg's game.

"

tinko92 wrote:

The point is, there is a way to make absolutely all mods useful to someone.

Which is exactly the same as saying "Any item that drops should only have useful mods", which leads to EVERY SINGLE ITEM being "good" and nothing being "bad", and it still would not address the underlying issue that too many whiny children experience with RNG. Your confirmation bias alone will support the feeling that the only stuff that ever drops is good for something other than *your* build, simply because you aren't finding 100% optimal gear for YOU on every drop.

Basically, you are arguing to change the system so that you can experience the same net result, for no real reason other than to potentially be able to scale or min/max every single piece of character optimization beyond what is actually needed in order to play/progress/enjoy the game. Interestingly enough, that level of optimization already exists, it is just really difficult to obtain with the current mod pool and tier system (which I don't have a problem with, but we all know that).

We are going to have to agree to disagree here, as this is intractable between the two camps.

It seems to be that as the item level raises, certain crummy or low level mods need to be removed from the list of potential rolls accordingly.

No way should there be level 60+ items rolling +1 mana gained on kill etc. It's ludicrous.

"

tinko92 wrote:

To whom are these filler mods useful now? To no one.

Except people leveling, or participating in race events, or low level PvPers. I feel like a broken record here. I keep saying it, and nobody listens; or worse, they tell me that nobody does these things. Just because you don't use these mods doesn't mean nobody else does. And please don't give me the "what end-game build would you use those for" argument, because I'm not talking about end-game.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea of increasing these to have higher values. But I believe that they exist as they are currently for a reason. Maybe stacking 2,000 life per second or 10k thorns damage per hit is just too strong, and they're working on a way to balance it in the future. I think the current stepping stones from "X Life Regen per second" to "X Life Gained on Hit" to "X% Physical Damage Leeched as Life" is working just fine. They shouldn't remove these low mods so all gear is good to somebody, because that's how RNG works. Most gear is garbage, and you have to know how to pick the good ones out from the rest.

(Also, the health regen and thorns damage values were examples, not the key point of my argument)

"

Efalathon wrote:

It seems to be that as the item level raises, certain crummy or low level mods need to be removed from the list of potential rolls accordingly.

No way should there be level 60+ items rolling +1 mana gained on kill etc. It's ludicrous.

Welcome to an RNG-based ARPG! Enjoy your stay! And if you don't like it, please don't tell them to change the game to your liking; kindly go play something else. Have a great day!

GJ in defending useless mods, implemented only to saturate mod pool and give us chance to get crap item. Wow. Why dont just reduce chances for top-tier rolls? Or, no, wait, there is a much better idea. Let GGG replaces all those mods like regen, throns and 2 life per kill with mod named "WASTED MOD SLOT. GL gaining mod next time", and gives absolutely nothing? Why, if you need shit rolls to proc sometimes, why dont just replace them all with one useless mod, that can appear multiple times even.

I'm going sick of all you taking life+double defence+tri res being BiS rolls as NORMAL. No matter of build, those will be BiS rolls (or 3-defence and 3-res for CI). Wow, such diversity...