This policy is a reason why the game will always be rigged with RMT and illegal Crosstrades

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Nephalim wrote:

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I don't get the arguments about how this doesn't affect other players. That's like saying financial market corruption has no effect on your daily life. That's not how it works, you're just ignorant.

The game has competitive and economic aspects that are, shockingly, promoted and used in every second argument about anything in the game. Trading, partying, races?

More often than not, people don't like what hilbert says, more often than not, he's right.

I dont think anyone here is arguing about the tremendous impact of rmt on the economy as evident by the fact uniques cost upwards of 150 exalts and mirror fees as high as 70 exalts. Granted, people do not need these end game items to play but for someone who is not already rich, it is an almost insurmountable task to accumulate enough currency to buy a single key unique or rare.

Where's the evidence that the prices would not be that high in the absence of RMT?

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syrioforel wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

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I don't get the arguments about how this doesn't affect other players. That's like saying financial market corruption has no effect on your daily life. That's not how it works, you're just ignorant.

The game has competitive and economic aspects that are, shockingly, promoted and used in every second argument about anything in the game. Trading, partying, races?

More often than not, people don't like what hilbert says, more often than not, he's right.

I dont think anyone here is arguing about the tremendous impact of rmt on the economy as evident by the fact uniques cost upwards of 150 exalts and mirror fees as high as 70 exalts. Granted, people do not need these end game items to play but for someone who is not already rich, it is an almost insurmountable task to accumulate enough currency to buy a single key unique or rare.

Where's the evidence that the prices would not be that high in the absence of RMT?

The issue created is not the absolute prices of things being pushed higher by rmt but having a relatively level playing field among the players and traders. As it is now rmt causing rampant economic inflation etc causing the average player to be at a severe disadvantage so that the average player can't accumulate wealth fast enough to hope to keep up with the inflated prices rmt creates.

PS: I just wanted to expand on my last post real quick about GGG being more transparent about their intent with the game's difficulty; There could be tool-tips that pop up at various stages in a new character/account's development that helps the player understand what challenges their being presented with so they are inclined to go to an information resource rather than an rmt resource to overcome said difficulties.

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As long as it doesnt reach d2 level of corruption (where botting/duping/rmt was so prevalent that very few people actually cared about trading) it won't be a major issue.

Whether or not some other player is getting ahead using shady methods doesn't actually impact your own experience. Lets say that we are both playing super mario but I am using a gameshark to cheat. Should you care?

You are trivializing the matter. Blizzard had an aggressive stance against cheating in 1.09 and they took down e-bay auctions(the ancient RMT way)
D2 is only a example what happens if you stop caring.

Super Mario is a coop game not a competive game.
Example how RMT affects PoE.
You RMT an exalted and roll and 50 life.
Then you get hit hard and escape with 30 life.
Would you have survived without RMT?
RMT is often used in high tier gameplay.
For example if given player ends up Top 50 the 51th player would be affected.
An example it affects one better player.

If you RMT currency you can outbid normal players and that affects everybody who bid on that item.

That's why a halfhearted policy is bad and players RMTing or crosstrading is bad.

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But then the only people who have a real incentive not to rmt are people like me who have given ggg like 500+ dollars and don't want to lose account specific microtransaction effects.

This is sadly untrue.

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I don't think people really realize how bad it is. If they had a magical button that would automatically ban every single account that has ever RMTed and every one of those people stopped playing, this game would take a devastating hit in playerbase.

How did massbans affect D2?
Items heavily gained on value. Currency also gained on value because a big base of currency got removed from the market.

And what case is more likely?
Players leaving because some RMTers and Crosstraders getting banned or players leaving because they have for example 5 chaos Orbs but RMTers pushed the price of some items to 10-20 chaos orbs.

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I find it odd that its still as strong in this game as it is, and its extremely strong and still growing.

The problem is the warning policy.
If the big shots would finally be killed that would reduce the RMT potential on PoE.

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Are you not aware that people who are banned are able to make another account and keep playing?

Once you got banned you will be banned again and the regular RMTers aren't smart enough to ban evade.

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I am fully aware and I welcome them back with open arms so they can either
1) repent and play legitimately

or

2) get caught again and lose several hundred dollars worth of real money.

It would be fantastic if GGG somehow profited off of bannings as it would be a great motivator to devote more resources.

Banning players also reduces server costs. The player base wanting a clean game is bigger than RMTers.

Banning and buy yourself a "Get out of Jail Card" as first offender would also create a shitstorm

You focus on certain case.
My problem is the general execution of their own rules.

RMT/Crosstrade users receive a warning instead of being banned.

I reported 100% RMTers and nothing happened but they took steps to go under the radar.
The RMT boards contains several threads of caught players involved in RMT received a warning PM.(this gave me the believe that there aren't any direct bans on RMT)
And there are cases of players getting reported for months and it tooks months to get one banned!

How will this policy ever affect RMTers / Crosstraders if they get away.

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Hilbert wrote:

I reported 100% RMTers and nothing happened but they took steps to go under the radar.

Did you provide proof of them RMT-ing? If proof was provided I reckon GGG would have taken appropriate action.

There was a recent ban on a very high profile target that took literally less than 2 days to process. Granted, the circumstances were extraordinarily unique but GGG does ban given irrefutable evidence. GGG restored so much confidence when i saw the offender finally banned and its sad cases like these can not be praised openly.

Sadly, this was not a high ranking player and imo, such a ban happening would resonate through the community and become a real deterrent to new cheaters as well as strike fear into existing cheaters. The upper tier of players pretty much all know each other in addition to knowing who is aggressively abusing rmt.

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Quickfade wrote:

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Hilbert wrote:

I reported 100% RMTers and nothing happened but they took steps to go under the radar.

Did you provide proof of them RMT-ing? If proof was provided I reckon GGG would have taken appropriate action.

Short of paypal transactions to illegal sites, what can GGG really do to prove someone used RMT? they dont have trade window transaction logs so theres no way to know if person X got y amount of mirrors from rmt account z.

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NotRegret wrote:

As long as it doesnt reach d2 level of corruption it won't be a major issue.
Whether or not some other player is getting ahead using shady methods doesn't actually impact your own experience.

If no actions are taken to combat the problem then it will reach that massive level of corruption that you're talking about.
All these things indirectly impact other players experiences.

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Warmey wrote:

I don't see any supporting pack beneath your name so I question the validity on your statements.
When you've purchased a pack, I will review this again.

This is just pathetic.

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Nephalim wrote:

Short of paypal transactions to illegal sites, what can GGG really do to prove someone used RMT? they dont have trade window transaction logs so theres no way to know if person X got y amount of mirrors from rmt account z.

The only proof I can think of that would be 'acceptable' would be someone whispering that he RMTs or admits to RMT-ing in-game which can be reported or having a screenshot taken. I was referring to OP saying he reported a few people to GGG so if he had evidence of them admitting that they RMT, GGG should take appropriate action.

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Quickfade wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

Short of paypal transactions to illegal sites, what can GGG really do to prove someone used RMT? they dont have trade window transaction logs so theres no way to know if person X got y amount of mirrors from rmt account z.

The only proof I can think of that would be 'acceptable' would be someone whispering that he RMTs or admits to RMT-ing in-game which can be reported or having a screenshot taken. I was referring to OP saying he reported a few people to GGG so if he had evidence of them admitting that they RMT, GGG should take appropriate action.

But who is stupid enough to admit to rmting? If that is the only form of proof then rmt might as well be legalized before very few rmters would ever be caught and banned.

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Nephalim wrote:

But who is stupid enough to admit to rmting? If that is the only form of proof then rmt might as well be legalized before very few rmters would ever be caught and banned.

Oh you'd be surprised. Some people think they're 'close friends' because they've been playing together since CB then talks just about anything. Next thing you know, BAM, you're banned. Lol.

You don't deal significant damage to systems by hunting down plebs one by one and taking immediate action.

Besides, assuming something is being done about RMT:ers, if y'all knew exactly what is being done to combat RMT:ers, how many get banned, how frequently, how fast, so would they, which would obviously make it easier for them to figure out how to avoid getting caught in the first place.
When the risk factor and it's variables stay unknown it becomes harder to know what the nessecary precautions to stay safe are.

Just sayin'.