Top Reasons I Like Trading, an Economy, and am Sick of Economy Hate Threads

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reboticon wrote:

Do those sentences annoy you? Because they run on and on? That's how trade channel is. Forever.

Have you read this forum? You're lucky to find sentences at all here.

Oh wait let me translate to forum-speak:

"lel grammer nzi........ heh"

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Twister0258 wrote:

Here is my top list of what is GOOD about trading and the economy. I am tired of all these SFL troll threads and economy hates posts. The simple truth is there are some very sophisticated factors most of these posters overlook.

1. The RNG needs to be tight. Period. People complain about self found and demand an ultra loose RNG. The issue is lifespan. The looser the RNG, the faster the game melts down, becomes stale/easy, and fails. Using D3 as an example, remember when they buffed legendary drops combined with difficulty nerfs? The economy became terminal, maxed in a month. Untouchably nice items in any form (i.e., merely having a GFG leg) became commonplace. Players got bored...fast. The no lifers were finding dozens of BIS bae leg types a day- top items lost all their distinction.

2. Trading adds a high layer of complexity to an otherwise mindless, skillless game. The simple truth is that while the game is highly complex relative to its peers, an economy is key for adding depth and skill. Because the game is big, understanding the economy and keeping current is tough! It lets those who are sophisticated gain an edge through knowledge. A binded SFL game becomes ideal for mindless, easy play. But that's the d3 market, not POE crowd. In fact, a SFL POE is less complex than a non bind D3

3. Trading mitigates the luck factor of a bad RNG streak. Although related to pts #1 and 2, , it's key to remember that trading gives you the flexibility to have what you want, even if drops don't fall your way. The normal counter to this is a request to juice the RNG, a very short sighted demand indeed

this is all very true, but the first point should be stickied.

when I read these whine threads I feel like I'm listening to kids cry because they can't have cake and candy for dinner every day ---- it is not good for you, kids.

also, the cool thing about trade is that there are a million items out there, and a huge variety of builds, so you always have access to some cool gear if you want to try another type of char.

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reboticon wrote:

It's not that people hate trading, it's that people hate how trading works in this game. It's fucking unreasonably time consuming and requires opening browsers to search for items in a 3rd party program to track someone down to then return in game and whisper them and hope you are both free at the same moment to go meet in an instance and make your tiny trade.

Or, it is sitting there for hours spamming your shit through 25+ trade channels while everyone uses macros and hoping that the guy who is interested in your item is watching at that particular moment and is about to read it in between the constant spam of that asshole who keeps linking an entire paragraph of vendor trash shit for multiple chaos 3 times a second.

Do those sentences annoy you? Because they run on and on? That's how trade channel is. Forever.


That's why people hate trading.

I hadn't played since sept, and I have to admit trade chat has gotten much worse.
I'd imagine there are just that many more players since release.
there was always chatspam, but there's a ton more of it, and the overall volume is way up to teh point where it's tough to use, although I haven't really checked higher channels.

bear in mind that being able to choose your chat channel is a fairly recent development.

one thing I do is if some guy is spamming I just put him on ignore right away to thin out the channel traffic a bit.

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EomMage wrote:

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Twister0258 wrote:

Here is my top list of what is GOOD about trading and the economy. I am tired of all these SFL troll threads and economy hates posts. The simple truth is there are some very sophisticated factors most of these posters overlook.

1. The RNG needs to be tight. Period. People complain about self found and demand an ultra loose RNG. The issue is lifespan. The looser the RNG, the faster the game melts down, becomes stale/easy, and fails. Using D3 as an example, remember when they buffed legendary drops combined with difficulty nerfs? The economy became terminal, maxed in a month. Untouchably nice items in any form (i.e., merely having a GFG leg) became commonplace. Players got bored...fast. The no lifers were finding dozens of BIS bae leg types a day- top items lost all their distinction.

this is all very true, but the first point should be stickied.

when I read these whine threads I feel like I'm listening to kids cry because they can't have cake and candy for dinner every day ---- it is not good for you, kids.

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Zanixx wrote:

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Twister0258 wrote:

1. The RNG needs to be tight. Period. People complain about self found and demand an ultra loose RNG. The issue is lifespan. The looser the RNG, the faster the game melts down, becomes stale/easy, and fails. Using D3 as an example, remember when they buffed legendary drops combined with difficulty nerfs? The economy became terminal, maxed in a month. Untouchably nice items in any form (i.e., merely having a GFG leg) became commonplace. Players got bored...fast. The no lifers were finding dozens of BIS bae leg types a day- top items lost all their distinction.

The irony of this post...

The people shouting for looser RnG are those that trade generally... not those that play SF lol.

I play solo self-found (although I haven't ever passed judgement on the SFL-threads that pop up) and am constantly telling people that trade, who whinge about the economy etc, that trading isnt necessary and self-found is fine. Your first paragraph has so missed the spot.

Of course with trading RNG doesn't need to be looser because its super easy to trade and get whatever you want. Thats not the same thing as asking to get rid of trading and a rebalanced game. The D3 example is just an example of a game with easy trading and easy drops. Of course thats not going to work.

Completing the hardest parts of the game with bad gear takes skill, solid decision making, an understanding of mechanics, knowledge of dangers in each area, bosses, and so on.

Or you can just buy it.

OP is looking at it all wrong. It's viewing the game in terms of trading then saying it can't exist without trading. Completely fail logic that shows a lack of thought to the opposition.

1. It's good to layout the ideas behind a self found league (SFL). It would be a different league entirely and not a modification on current leagues; a 3rd option to softcore and hardcore. Right there it has absolutely ZERO impact on any player(s) who do not want to play in a SFL.

2. In an SFL the thought is that drop rates would need to be increased to mitigate the loss of trading because no matter if you like trading or not it would be a loss to the balance of the game as it has been currently designed around it. Here is where some like the OP get lost. Increased drop does not mean it will rain exalts. It does not mean a piety kill drops 7 bringer of rain and kaoms. It does not mean rare items drop only with better stats. It really just means higher native iiq.

3. Orbs. What do you think about them? Most jump to currency. In a SFL there would be no such thing as currency. Orbs would be used and required for crafting. Amazing they would be used for their designed purpose rather than currency and somehow that is backwards? LOL.

#2&3 together open up a large chunk of the game currently lost by trading. Actually crafting items would and could be fun. Vendor recipes for exchange of orbs would make it possible. Again, remember the RNG is still there and the likeliness of rolling 10% light radius is still there. That's a hard concept for many who jump to the conclusion godly rolls and godly drops would be inherent.

The question pops up often, why not just play self found in current leagues? Some do. Sure. The problem is the game, the RNG, the drops all are balanced around the trading system. That wall people hit is meant to be overcome by either a) trading b) rerolling.

Trading and crafting could and would have equal roads to end game. Actually, trading becomes easier in the long run after a couple characters you have items and gems to sell that a new character becomes easier to gear. The modifications for a SFL would provide an alternative way of reaching end game status by actually Playing the game rather than sitting in town spamming trade chat (though those may be arguably the same for some).

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EomMage wrote:

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Twister0258 wrote:

Here is my top list of what is GOOD about trading and the economy. I am tired of all these SFL troll threads and economy hates posts. The simple truth is there are some very sophisticated factors most of these posters overlook.

1. The RNG needs to be tight. Period. People complain about self found and demand an ultra loose RNG. The issue is lifespan. The looser the RNG, the faster the game melts down, becomes stale/easy, and fails. Using D3 as an example, remember when they buffed legendary drops combined with difficulty nerfs? The economy became terminal, maxed in a month. Untouchably nice items in any form (i.e., merely having a GFG leg) became commonplace. Players got bored...fast. The no lifers were finding dozens of BIS bae leg types a day- top items lost all their distinction.

2. Trading adds a high layer of complexity to an otherwise mindless, skillless game. The simple truth is that while the game is highly complex relative to its peers, an economy is key for adding depth and skill. Because the game is big, understanding the economy and keeping current is tough! It lets those who are sophisticated gain an edge through knowledge. A binded SFL game becomes ideal for mindless, easy play. But that's the d3 market, not POE crowd. In fact, a SFL POE is less complex than a non bind D3

3. Trading mitigates the luck factor of a bad RNG streak. Although related to pts #1 and 2, , it's key to remember that trading gives you the flexibility to have what you want, even if drops don't fall your way. The normal counter to this is a request to juice the RNG, a very short sighted demand indeed

this is all very true, but the first point should be stickied.

when I read these whine threads I feel like I'm listening to kids cry because they can't have cake and candy for dinner every day ---- it is not good for you, kids.

also, the cool thing about trade is that there are a million items out there, and a huge variety of builds, so you always have access to some cool gear if you want to try another type of char.

Trading makes gearing up faster and easier. Playing with just one's own drops, even with increased drop rates, is still harder and takes longer to find optimal stats to fit one's build. Trading lets you get the exact combination of stats on gear to fit one's build. If you're interested in longevity of the game, then trading is worse since people get gear way too easily.

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Druga1757 wrote:

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EomMage wrote:

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Twister0258 wrote:

Here is my top list of what is GOOD about trading and the economy. I am tired of all these SFL troll threads and economy hates posts. The simple truth is there are some very sophisticated factors most of these posters overlook.

1. The RNG needs to be tight. Period. People complain about self found and demand an ultra loose RNG. The issue is lifespan. The looser the RNG, the faster the game melts down, becomes stale/easy, and fails. Using D3 as an example, remember when they buffed legendary drops combined with difficulty nerfs? The economy became terminal, maxed in a month. Untouchably nice items in any form (i.e., merely having a GFG leg) became commonplace. Players got bored...fast. The no lifers were finding dozens of BIS bae leg types a day- top items lost all their distinction.

2. Trading adds a high layer of complexity to an otherwise mindless, skillless game. The simple truth is that while the game is highly complex relative to its peers, an economy is key for adding depth and skill. Because the game is big, understanding the economy and keeping current is tough! It lets those who are sophisticated gain an edge through knowledge. A binded SFL game becomes ideal for mindless, easy play. But that's the d3 market, not POE crowd. In fact, a SFL POE is less complex than a non bind D3

3. Trading mitigates the luck factor of a bad RNG streak. Although related to pts #1 and 2, , it's key to remember that trading gives you the flexibility to have what you want, even if drops don't fall your way. The normal counter to this is a request to juice the RNG, a very short sighted demand indeed

this is all very true, but the first point should be stickied.

when I read these whine threads I feel like I'm listening to kids cry because they can't have cake and candy for dinner every day ---- it is not good for you, kids.

also, the cool thing about trade is that there are a million items out there, and a huge variety of builds, so you always have access to some cool gear if you want to try another type of char.

Trading makes gearing up faster and easier. Playing with just one's own drops, even with increased drop rates, is still harder and takes longer to find optimal stats to fit one's build. Trading lets you get the exact combination of stats on gear to fit one's build. If you're interested in longevity of the game, then trading is worse since people get gear way too easily.

right but trade is a core part of this genre of game. Same can be said for other players in your party making things easier for you because they have better gear, EVEN IF THEY ARE ALSO SELF FOUND. All it takes is someone play self found and find better gear then you.

Now if you are playing SELF FOUND and SINGLE PLAYER. I agree.

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BuDiu wrote:

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Druga1757 wrote:

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EomMage wrote:

this is all very true, but the first point should be stickied.

when I read these whine threads I feel like I'm listening to kids cry because they can't have cake and candy for dinner every day ---- it is not good for you, kids.

also, the cool thing about trade is that there are a million items out there, and a huge variety of builds, so you always have access to some cool gear if you want to try another type of char.

Trading makes gearing up faster and easier. Playing with just one's own drops, even with increased drop rates, is still harder and takes longer to find optimal stats to fit one's build. Trading lets you get the exact combination of stats on gear to fit one's build. If you're interested in longevity of the game, then trading is worse since people get gear way too easily.

right but trade is a core part of this genre of game. Same can be said for other players in your party making things easier for you because they have better gear, EVEN IF THEY ARE ALSO SELF FOUND. All it takes is someone play self found and find better gear then you.

Now if you are playing SELF FOUND and SINGLE PLAYER. I agree.

I disagree, trading was a complimentary part of this genre of game. It has become the core part because it is so overwhelmingly easier, faster, better way to gear up. These games are always about finding the best build/gear to make the content easier to beat. Trading brought it to a new level, to the detriment of longevity of the game.