Top Reasons I Like Trading, an Economy, and am Sick of Economy Hate Threads

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Jojas wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

Wow is an MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG. MMORPG. Wow is ALSO a Action based RPG. This was discussed a long time ago on MMO-CHAMPION. Wow you have to change your position all of the time. Actually in fact Poe is much more of a tank and spank game overall. Wow you HAVE to move away much more often from things that would kill you otherwise specially in dungeons. When you bring up playing in groups that's where wow distances itself from poe because its an MMO. But having massive groups does not take away from the meaning of an ARPG. It just adds the MMO to its description.

Ok, you might be right. WoW has action elements galore.

Still, there are too many differences too make it classify as an ARPG. If that makes you happy we can call it a MMORPG with action elements.

ok thats fine with me. We can call it an MMORPG that has every single aspect of the known definition of an ARPG. EVERY SINGLE ASPECT.

There is no "known definition" of ARPG. The term ARPG was introduced not so much to describe what they are but what they are not: turn-based or RTwP.

Again, that WoW has elements that make it actiony does not make it an ARPG. It's the differences that count here.

Remember you tried to prove a point by calling WoW an ARPG? What I'm trying to tell you is that you are on the wrong track here, because in WoW, no matter the similarities, the differences are too many and too much at its core for it too serve your point. So much so that it belongs to a different genre -> MMORPG.

If you don't get that, I'm sorry, but this was it for me.

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BuDiu wrote:

low level uniques are FAR from required in any way to advance in the game.

Map drops are not bad. I know this first hand, i mapped with the #1 player to hit 100 and many other groups since. If you want to level faster you need to fork the currency. Or you can level not as fast like it was intended by GGG. Occasionally dropping down to lower maps and occasionally going up.

Also you dont have to map the slightest to level at decent pace up untill 72+

come on.. you are playing a game from a company called GRINDING GEAR GAMES, and you dont like to farm? Farming is grinding. And most people do, thats why this game is as successful as it is from an indy company no one ever heard of before.

Yea, and even low level uniques drop rates suck, i mean most of them will drop on higher levels and not when you need them. One more fact that shows that drop rates in the game are bad.

Map drop are not bad because you farmed with a guy that farmed for 1000h? xD Lol, thank you for saying that map drops are actually bad if you need to farm that much. But i know they are bad because i did tried to play with them. It's extremely stupid that you need to farm boring low level maps to get to hire level maps if you have a character for high level ones, and it is done only because of the economy.

Also you dont know what most people like, and why this game is a success. It has nothing to do with grinding or trading, but art style, character development and item design are the core reasons why this game is successful (for now). The fact is if you would remove trading from the game people would still play it, but if you removed any other part like character customization, art style, item design, no one would be playing this, because the reason people play arpg game is not trading or grinding for no reword, never was and never will be.

Focus on trading and korean like grinding is actually hurting the game as you can see huge drop rates of players. And again grinding with no reword is very bad thing in any game, including this one.

But good thing at least you acknowledge the game has bad drop rates because the company name is GRINDING GEAR GAMES.

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Jojas wrote:

There is no "known definition" of ARPG. The term ARPG was introduced not so much to describe what they are but what they are not: turn-based or RTwP.

Again, that WoW has elements that make it actiony does not make it an ARPG. It's the differences that count here.

Remember you tried to prove a point by calling WoW an ARPG? What I'm trying to tell you is that you are on the wrong track here, because in WoW, no matter the similarities, the differences are too many and too much at its core for it too serve your point. So much so that it belongs to a different genre -> MMORPG.

If you don't get that, I'm sorry, but this was it for me.

It has a solid definition. There is a known definition.

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Action role-playing games (abbreviated action RPG, action/RPG, or ARPG) form a loosely defined sub-genre of role-playing video games that incorporate elements of action or action-adventure games, emphasizing real-time action where the player has direct control over characters, instead of turn-based or menu-based combat. These games often use combat systems similar to hack and slash or shooter games.

this one is from wiki, but i can find many others that are the exact same thing worded slightly different.

Differences are too many? differences from what? just because one game has extra features another game did not, it does not take away from its class. Unless that feature puts it into a class that is completely different than the ARPG definition witch it does not. The MMORPG class is about massive multiplier online, its not about NOT having the aspects of ARPGs.

Guess we can end this discussion here! Since ur done =[

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miljan wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

low level uniques are FAR from required in any way to advance in the game.

Map drops are not bad. I know this first hand, i mapped with the #1 player to hit 100 and many other groups since. If you want to level faster you need to fork the currency. Or you can level not as fast like it was intended by GGG. Occasionally dropping down to lower maps and occasionally going up.

Also you dont have to map the slightest to level at decent pace up untill 72+

come on.. you are playing a game from a company called GRINDING GEAR GAMES, and you dont like to farm? Farming is grinding. And most people do, thats why this game is as successful as it is from an indy company no one ever heard of before.

Yea, and even low level uniques drop rates suck, i mean most of them will drop on higher levels and not when you need them. One more fact that shows that drop rates in the game are bad.

Map drop are not bad because you farmed with a guy that farmed for 1000h? xD Lol, thank you for saying that map drops are actually bad if you need to farm that much. But i know they are bad because i did tried to play with them. It's extremely stupid that you need to farm boring low level maps to get to hire level maps if you have a character for high level ones, and it is done only because of the economy.

Also you dont know what most people like, and why this game is a success. It has nothing to do with grinding or trading, but art style, character development and item design are the core reasons why this game is successful (for now). The fact is if you would remove trading from the game people would still play it, but if you removed any other part like character customization, art style, item design, no one would be playing this, because the reason people play arpg game is not trading or grinding for no reword, never was and never will be.

Focus on trading and korean like grinding is actually hurting the game as you can see huge drop rates of players. And again grinding with no reword is very bad thing in any game, including this one.

But good thing at least you acknowledge the game has bad drop rates because the company name is GRINDING GEAR GAMES.

Im sorry but it takes like 1 day to get from 1-50. (less if you have gear in stash)

How do you expect to find the unique you need and not the other 300 that could be useless to your build in 1 day of game play?

Map drop are not bad if you do it right. Just like farming if you do it right. If you have a party of 4+ players willing to contribute with maps + currency to roll, chances are you will not drop low in terms of map level. Most good groups are able to maintain 73+ all day without a sweat. And thats not only on my first map group, it has been with all groups i participated, including public groups. One thing i can for sure agree on, its freaking retarded to find a 66 map when you run a 72+ map. That is an issue to be worked on in my eyes. But it never stopped any of my groups or the good groups i know of. (From my personal experience of ridiculous amount of map time + 90+ characters.

Ok i dont know what other players like, but i know what me and my friends like. So i base my opinion on that, and i chose to play this game because how i know this type of game is. Long farming and leveling sessions, heavy trading market etc.

Some drop rates suck balls. But its because they are supposed to. It has to be the 1 or 100 system for things to last in the long run. Even tho they never do with any game nowdays to be honest.

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BuDiu wrote:

It has a solid definition. There is a known definition.

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Action role-playing games (abbreviated action RPG, action/RPG, or ARPG) form a loosely defined sub-genre of role-playing video games that incorporate elements of action or action-adventure games, emphasizing real-time action where the player has direct control over characters, instead of turn-based or menu-based combat. These games often use combat systems similar to hack and slash or shooter games.

this one is from wiki, but i can find many others that are the exact same thing worded slightly different.

Differences are too many? differences from what? just because one game has extra features another game did not, it does not take away from its class. Unless that feature puts it into a class that is completely different than the ARPG definition witch it does not. The MMORPG class is about massive multiplier online, its not about NOT having the aspects of ARPGs.

Guess we can end this discussion here! Since ur done =[

WoW is not a arpg. One of the main difference between rpg and arpg is how you control your character and you see it in the wiki page that you posted. You do not have direct control of wow character compared to any other arpg. They will auto attack in wow. In action games you do every move and every attack by your self. There is no auto or anything like that. Every swing you need to order, that is why its action, in wow it is not like that.

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miljan wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

It has a solid definition. There is a known definition.

"

Action role-playing games (abbreviated action RPG, action/RPG, or ARPG) form a loosely defined sub-genre of role-playing video games that incorporate elements of action or action-adventure games, emphasizing real-time action where the player has direct control over characters, instead of turn-based or menu-based combat. These games often use combat systems similar to hack and slash or shooter games.

this one is from wiki, but i can find many others that are the exact same thing worded slightly different.

Differences are too many? differences from what? just because one game has extra features another game did not, it does not take away from its class. Unless that feature puts it into a class that is completely different than the ARPG definition witch it does not. The MMORPG class is about massive multiplier online, its not about NOT having the aspects of ARPGs.

Guess we can end this discussion here! Since ur done =[

WoW is not a arpg. One of the main difference between rpg and arpg is how you control your character and you see it in the wiki page that you posted. You do not have direct control of wow character compared to any other arpg. They will auto attack in wow. In action games you do every move and every attack by your self. There is no auto or anything like that. Every swing you need to order, that is why its action, in wow it is not like that.

wow characters dont auto attack if you dont want it to lol...

so your saying cast on damage taken is not auto attack...

let me elaborate more:

in wow you do have full control of your character. You can set up MACROS in WoW much like you can in POE. except GGG does not like complex macros lol.

When ARPG refers to turn based attack, they are referring to pokemon style. And Menu based combat is where you choose a set of moves before hand. In wow you need to press each move at the right time. You cant set a set of skills to be used the entire boss fight and it does on its own. That would be a BOT and its not allowed ^.^
Much like in POE where you need to press each button when you want that move to happen.

Both games are alike in this sense and both will have people mashing their keyboards or holding the button if you dont like to mash hehe

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BuDiu wrote:

Im sorry but it takes like 1 day to get from 1-50. (less if you have gear in stash)

How do you expect to find the unique you need and not the other 300 that could be useless to your build in 1 day of game play?

Map drop are not bad if you do it right. Just like farming if you do it right. If you have a party of 4+ players willing to contribute with maps + currency to roll, chances are you will not drop low in terms of map level. Most good groups are able to maintain 73+ all day without a sweat. And thats not only on my first map group, it has been with all groups i participated, including public groups. One thing i can for sure agree on, its freaking retarded to find a 66 map when you run a 72+ map. That is an issue to be worked on in my eyes. But it never stopped any of my groups or the good groups i know of. (From my personal experience of ridiculous amount of map time + 90+ characters.

Ok i dont know what other players like, but i know what me and my friends like. So i base my opinion on that, and i chose to play this game because how i know this type of game is. Long farming and leveling sessions, heavy trading market etc.

Some drop rates suck balls. But its because they are supposed to. It has to be the 1 or 100 system for things to last in the long run. Even tho they never do with any game nowdays to be honest.

I dont understand so what if it takes 1 to 50 to get in one day? If you rush the game you can, if you play on normal pace to do everything than it is much slower. In one day? Wtf are you talking about, i never rush games. Play PoE, how many uniqeus will you get before you hit last dif? Two if you are lucky. Now go play d2 and how many unqieus/set items you will get before you hit hell? From 5 to 10 and even more. Simple thing that says the game drop rates sucks. I dont want uniques that I need, i want any unique drop xD, and I am talking about low level ones.

Map DROPS ARE BAD. They are bad because they are designed like that. Dont talk about crap like party magic find and other shit, it just says drop rates sucks balls if you need to party to get anything. All your posts actually says exactly that drop rates suck.

And my friends dont like trading part of the game (would anyone played this game if there is only trading and nothing else? No. Would anyone playe this game if there was no trading at all? Yes, and I am sure 99% would still play it because the main reason people play this type of games is not trading, and you know it), and the reason you see thread compalinging about trade/drop rates/maps progression/crafting so often means that are a lot of people that dont like that part of the game and ther eis a problem. And all thise people and me want to play and kill shit with normal investment in time like any other arpg out there.

Not some, all drop rates suck balls because of the economy. I allredy posted why its like that. Also you do not limit your game to last longer artificially, you make the game last longer with content, different character builds and updates and not some korea grind fest.

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BuDiu wrote:

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Actually they do auto attack and auto aim and similar in wow compared to arpg games. In wow most of time you dont even need to look where your target is, just select it and you will hit it, it means it auto attacks. You will not find any arpg that does that, because of direct control in arpg games.

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miljan wrote:

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BuDiu wrote:

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Actually they do auto attack and auto aim and similar in wow compared to arpg games. In wow most of time you dont even need to look where your target is, just select it and you will hit it, it means it auto attacks. You will not find any arpg that does that, because of direct control in arpg games.

here is the single most important aspects of an ARPG: dungeon crawl with real-time elements, requiring timed keyboard commands and where enemies move independently of the player.

So wow does fall under ARPG as part of its definition for sure. No arguing here after that.

I do agree however that you can sort of auto attack in WoW. But thats just a basic swing. Every single skill like all spells, etc it requires you pressing the button each time. You can also stop auto attack if you wish at any moment. And you can chose not to do it in first place.

In poe you have ways to auto attack as well. Like the cast on gems.