POE: The Best of Games and the Worst of Games

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Oxyn wrote:

I think you need to revisit the idea of currency.
Paper money is worthless as anything but a medium of exchange

It has only this one use, and it has a defined (but floating, by inflation) value. Maybe its a incorrect assumption to call this value a 'worth'...

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Oxyn wrote:

In PoE, the fact that currency can be used for something else does a nice job of setting a lower limit on how much the currency's value can deflate : a point is reached where you would have a better chance at a good item crafting it than buying at inflated prices.

It serves as a (needed) sink for the currencies; you can trade them to some degree at the NPCs, and you can decide to try to roll some gear with them that may be better what you already have or may find.

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Oxyn wrote:

Without this feature, it would be no different than gold in other games.

Yes - there's only one slightly difference, if you have a balanced sink on both systems: Gold is a solitary currency (with a very low base value), only one unit - so only one sink is needed. If you use other, different items to trade, the complexity raises, just like known from stock exchange - with each added item. And you need different sinks, each has to have either a use, or a ratio to exchange to other items with a use.

Without USE: no demand. Without demand: no value.

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Make things too easy and the game will lose it's player base rapidly.

Make things too hard and the same thing happens even faster. I never felt as hindered in acquiring loot in D2, yet that game still has people coming back.

Keep in mind, the average player isn't obsessively infatuated with the top-tier 1% items they see someone else wearing. They simply want a fair chance at finding something worthwhile once in awhile. PoE has failed in that respect.

If I can farm for 15+ levels and not find a single upgrade to my bow, that is a problem. And one GGG may want to address quickly.

I also fail to see how trade-to-win isn't the absolute easiest way to breeze through the game.

quote]If I can farm for 15+ levels and not find a single upgrade to my bow, that is a problem. And one GGG may want to address quickly.[/quote]

Jep. Farming 15+ Levels and sinking the whole currency in trying to craft a better item (cause nothing Drops) with no result is a Little bit..depressing.

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artojas wrote:

200 hours on lvl 78 char sounds legit, as legit as not finding stuff better than a1 in that period, holy bullshit

Learn how to check poe stats properly kid.

RNGBROS is my first nemesis character that I leveled up in first 3 days. I've managed to save up some mediocre/average gear back then.
MEELECONFIRMEDOP is my 2nd one which is dead ( <3 devourers in 72+). And yeah - I've wasted more than 2 weeks on this character without finding a single upgrade. I gave up and bought them ~2 days before I died. Don't spread bullshit accusations if you can't even check the characters history.

Totally agree ! RNG is boring.

I don't understand why folks say the loot is bad in this game. Have you played Diablo 3? That was some boring-ass loot. In PoE, I put multiple items in my quickly-overflowing stash every session.

Crafting could be a bit more focused. Remember the Blood/Safety/Caster/Hit Power etc. recipes from D2? That was crafting, and it was one of my favorite things from that game. PoE's orb-to-rare system feels a bit random, and for a self-found-item loner like myself, I dread burning through my meager supply of Orb of Fusings just to get a Merciless-viable weapon.

As to the OP's point that the bad weighs as heavily as the good? I disagree--PoE is visionary and awesome; the downfalls are nothing that couldn't be fixed in a few patches and/or an expansion. Fun far, far outweighs the flaws.

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PrimeHydra wrote:

I don't understand why folks say the loot is bad in this game. Have you played Diablo 3? That was some boring-ass loot. In PoE, I put multiple items in my quickly-overflowing stash every session.

Crafting could be a bit more focused. Remember the Blood/Safety/Caster/Hit Power etc. recipes from D2? That was crafting, and it was one of my favorite things from that game. PoE's orb-to-rare system feels a bit random, and for a self-found-item loner like myself, I dread burning through my meager supply of Orb of Fusings just to get a Merciless-viable weapon.

As to the OP's point that the bad weighs as heavily as the good? I disagree--PoE is visionary and awesome; the downfalls are nothing that couldn't be fixed in a few patches and/or an expansion. Fun far, far outweighs the flaws.

There's about 45 pages in this thread detailing exactly why folks say the loot is bad in this game. You could try reading those if you really want to understand. Not sure what you mean by "boring" loot, most of us are talking about the amount of farming it takes to find an upgrade to our current loot. I play self-found too, and the problem is only exasperated in that situation. As far as your fusings, it's a pipe dream. You're more likely to find a 5l drop than to craft a 5l much less a 6l.

Your (and my) stash may be over-flowing, but I bet it's over-flowing with rares and a few uniques that you will never use as they aren't viable for your character. Hardly worth the effort for a few alch shards.

I agree the problems could be fixed, but the problems aren't being fixed. The downfalls are still negatives until they're fixed and made positive. I'm glad you are enjoying the game, but knowing right off the bat that a self-found character will never make it to end-game maps kind of takes the wind out of the sails. As you level up the rewards becme fewer and fewer. imo this should be the reverse. You level up to take on bigger and badder mobs, so you should have a chance to find bigger and better loot.

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bluefalcon74 wrote:

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PrimeHydra wrote:

I don't understand why folks say the loot is bad in this game. Have you played Diablo 3? That was some boring-ass loot. In PoE, I put multiple items in my quickly-overflowing stash every session.

Crafting could be a bit more focused. Remember the Blood/Safety/Caster/Hit Power etc. recipes from D2? That was crafting, and it was one of my favorite things from that game. PoE's orb-to-rare system feels a bit random, and for a self-found-item loner like myself, I dread burning through my meager supply of Orb of Fusings just to get a Merciless-viable weapon.

As to the OP's point that the bad weighs as heavily as the good? I disagree--PoE is visionary and awesome; the downfalls are nothing that couldn't be fixed in a few patches and/or an expansion. Fun far, far outweighs the flaws.

There's about 45 pages in this thread detailing exactly why folks say the loot is bad in this game. You could try reading those if you really want to understand. Not sure what you mean by "boring" loot, most of us are talking about the amount of farming it takes to find an upgrade to our current loot. I play self-found too, and the problem is only exasperated in that situation. As far as your fusings, it's a pipe dream. You're more likely to find a 5l drop than to craft a 5l much less a 6l.

Your (and my) stash may be over-flowing, but I bet it's over-flowing with rares and a few uniques that you will never use as they aren't viable for your character. Hardly worth the effort for a few alch shards.

I agree the problems could be fixed, but the problems aren't being fixed. The downfalls are still negatives until they're fixed and made positive. I'm glad you are enjoying the game, but knowing right off the bat that a self-found character will never make it to end-game maps kind of takes the wind out of the sails. As you level up the rewards becme fewer and fewer. imo this should be the reverse. You level up to take on bigger and badder mobs, so you should have a chance to find bigger and better loot.

Joined:
18 November 2013
Oh well ;)
It says a lot ;)

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BldSwtTrs wrote:

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mrraan wrote:

I've leveled 6 characters to level 60-72.

More around 30-50.

I've not found one single exalted.

Uses my exalted, which I earned from selling tons of gear for chaoses, on a decent rare chest-piece to find +reflect damage.

That's frustrating.

I don't think I found an exalt for the first 400-500 hours I played the game. Then I started to create more efficient faster killing characters with a little item quantity. I've probably found 20 or so at this point. The games about efficiency, if they balance based on what new players can achieve with little effort it will trivialize the game for those who are more experienced.

Who says you can't balance the game differently for the more and less experienced?

Okay, first of all, what differences a "more" and a "less" experienced player in PoE? 2 things basically:
1)Character level
2)Play time

That is what differences a pro with >80lvl characters, and "normal" players that get chars with levels 60-70.

That is a pretty big difference, and one that is actually used in the game: level progression

I.e, if a gear with 1 ilvl drops, it's worse than one that drops with 80 ilvl. This means, that the new player will get a specific item, while the more experienced player will get a better item, one more suited to his play, skill level, etc.

There, it's already in the game and it's already "solved": add levels to orbs

That alone solves it (perhaps). Yes, it may not be fun, it may not be pretty, it may need some adjustments, it may need some revamp and actually be inspiration for something else, but the concept is there: find what differences the people that are having a bad time playing the game, and the people that don't but you don't want to fuck over, and use that difference to balance the changes you make


Also, like I said, another difference is Time. I.e, a "pro" will play PoE more hours than a normal or maybe "casual" player. Thus balance crafting around that. If someone spends more time playing he should be "better off" crafting than someone that doesn't.
Current orb drop rates are a way of using this mechanic. Someone that plays a lot, will statistically get more currency than someone who doesn't. More currency = being "better off". Why not add this same strategy, but without making the normal player feel frustrated at the game, and make crafting more fun, bla bla bla?.

So, you can use any of these mechanics to revamp crafting and try to balance it:
Character level
Time played
Experience gained
Area/Monster level

They all translate easily into one another, so you can pick any of them.

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Oxyn wrote:

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illusionHC wrote:

I disagree. I’m sorry but there is no thrill at all. Basically before picking up an item you already know that it’s gonna be vendor trash 99% of the time.

Regarding your last point... this isn't game design you're arguing against... it's basic mathematics. The chances of any newly found item being an upgrade to what you already have is a function only of how long you've played. Nothing more. It doesn't matter what they do to drop rates; very quickly the situation returns to equilibrium again.

If you play at max level 100 hours, the odds of finding an upgrade by playing another hour are about 1 in 100. If you play 500 hours, 1 in 500. Etc. How many slots you have, how many rolls the items have, etc. are all irrelevant.

Everyone needs to read this carefully and make sure they understand why it's true. This basic point seems to be missed by the vast majority of GD posters in this thread and many others.