POE: The Best of Games and the Worst of Games

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johnnysd wrote:

there are two distinct types of crafting:

1. Crafting that produces or tries to improve items
2. Crafting that makes an item usable in terms of sockets, color of sockets and links

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Geertwilbert wrote:

You sure missed something then in putting that philosophy to practice, because believe me, when you were younger and playing ARPGs, you wouldn't have had the patience to put up with the insane amount of time you have to grind in PoE before you find anything that even comes close to an upgrade.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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johnnysd wrote:

there are two distinct types of crafting:

1. Crafting that produces or tries to improve items
2. Crafting that makes an item usable in terms of sockets, color of sockets and links

not really. The complaints are mainly driven by the fact that you can ruin your gear by trying to improve them - and this is equally possible with both "crafting types" you differ between. And its nearly inexistent, as soon as people understand to not craft their weared gear, but (better) alternatives instead: never ever fall back from your char's "quality" - solved.

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IlyaK1986 wrote:

Actually, I beg to differ. Note that the good parts about PoE are not PoE original ideas.

ARPG? Diablo.
Skill tree? Sphere grid from FFX.
Gem system? Materia from FFVII.

The adaption of the Final Fantasy mechanics to an ARPG was a most excellent innovation. However, it wasn't an invention, but that shouldn't take away from its impact.

Onto another thing, here's a thought that hit me:

The game is fun in normal. Why?

Because since you're low-leveled, your build doesn't matter, and since you haven't found gear yet, your gear doesn't matter. So, what matters is your tactics. Thus, the game is fun because it's a very fundamental "use your ARPG gaming tactics (aka how do you point and click, manage health and mana) to kill lots of mobs", and the loot casino hasn't become a factor yet.

In Cruel, you still may not have found the best items, but you've found some--but by now, you've gotten a good 40 or so levels. So now, the game tests you on the effectiveness of your build. Did you follow good character-building fundamentals--that is, did you take enough damage not to be swarmed, and also enough defense that you're not a glass cannon? If so, congratulations, you've met the build prerequisites and thus have reduced the game back down to ARPG fundamentals.

But starting at Cruel Scepter of God, the game quickly becomes less fun. Why? Because your leveling progression slows, thus the way to get the most progression from your build is no longer through tactics (if you've gotten to this point, your tactics are sound, and so is your skill tree build). So how does the game challenge you then?

Through the loot casino.

Except here's the problem:

Unlike ARPG tactics, which are fully in your control (desync aside), and character progression build (also fully in your control), the loot casino is very much out of your control. So while the game is manageable for those with amazing gear, for those who aren't as lucky (or simply haven't put in the obscene amount of hours to uncover the good loot through the tedium), they no longer meet the loot prerequisites, thus the game goes from appropriately challenging to frustratingly difficult, purely out of their control.

Thus, IMO, the loot system needs to be a lot more deterministic, in the same way that ARPG tactics and your character progression are fully in the player's control.

Yes, it may decrease the length of time people play, but if there isn't much content to begin with, why force them to go through an unpleasant experience? If you think about single player games (Devil May Cry, Final Fantasies, etc...), those games are designed to provide the best experience for each individual player, and thus have no unnecessary fluff. The one time a final fantasy game tried to pad its playable hours with empty sidequests (FF12), it caused a justified controversy (why are you putting in an MMO into my JRPG? Booo!).

I think we all realize that new content isn't trivial to come up with, but I'm sure as GGG releases more acts, some of us may decide to come back and pick up the game again. There's no harm in that.

But all of these Skinner Box mechanics around the loot system? That leaves a terrible taste in people's mouths to the point that some of them may turn away in disgust. And it's completely unnecessary IMO.

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Garr0t wrote:

<...>What I don't want to see is the ability to guarantee BIS<...>.

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estu87 wrote:

not to mention they encourage build diversity only to nerf op build. fuck it, some people will get bored with op build and reroll new build for sure, no need to nerf it.

my other suggestion to crafting.

node in the skill tree take role to determine what will you get when crafting. like build that picked up many health node are more likely to roll high +max health when crafting. that way people will play more to create many build for crafting an omnipotent gear.

right now many of high end gear crafter spent their time flipping item in the market, they play this game like monoply tycoon, not an arpg.