POE: The Best of Games and the Worst of Games

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johnnysd wrote:

Then there is loot. POE does not really have loot, it has core items and orbs. Period. All you get as you play the game is an endless sea of white gear, occasional blues rares and uniques with random sockets that invariably need to be modified using incredibly low drop rate orbs and the terrible crafting system. There is very very rare joy in finding anything in POE. In fact drops are so bad, that it is actually more efficient to sit in town and "buy" items with the crafting orbs, because you are never going to find what you need, and the orbs you have because of the completely random nature are completely useless for trying to actually craft something. For a game that originally promised no currency and a barter system, POE is the most currency-concentric game I have ever played.

agree 100%

crafting is shit
drops are mostly shit
some uniques are even map only (lol wtf)
and maps dont even drop better gear more often
fusing is horrible

for a game that has been in beta for around a year , sure a lot of things are going to change ...

I actually like the crafting system... it's what makes the game fun in the first place. But players who "need the best" find it "an abomination". Here's the thing... no one needs the best. You don't need 6L. You don't need your rares to be optimal. You don't need an item so good that the million players will all give you stuff just to look at it.

The crafting system allows you to dream of this stuff, and makes it next to impossible to obtain it. It's doing it's job perfectly. Yes, it's frustrating. If it weren't, you wouldn't value the items you could create. Yes, it relies entirely on luck. What else would you have it rely on? Skill? What skill?

I think that if you look at it... crafting in PoE is it's strongest point.

Your "bad" points are comments on your (and most players) playstyle... not on the game. If you were to play self found HC, you would find the game a lot more fun. You don't sit in town trading. That's the abomination. You find items all the time. You craft items occasionally. And you die, and get to play the game again. It's fun. You've turned the game into a job and are complaining it's not fun. Learn to have fun.

I agree with most comments, nicely written, you have certainly made some points in crafting and it lackings, how ever I think you miss big picture ie. basic idea that developers had when they devised crafting system.

It's concept was pretty flawless too like rest of game however real value of orbs was quickly set by people willing to "pay" most for them, ie. top tier crafters. Chaos was valuable exactly as much as richest guy was willing to pay for it. That posed a problem, still does btw. Orbs became money which was not original intent.


Funny or not (here we go again) and accidental or not SFL would cure two of biggest issue that this game has - low orb drop rates and non functional crafting. Maybe that's the reason some ppl just won't let go of it.

People you need to realize, that in ONLINE environment you have to have low drop rates. Period.
Not terrible drop rates which takes fun from the game like D3 was at the beginning. Reasonable drop rates. And I think, we have reasonable ones right now. I finished merciless on Domination, I do some maps I got some orbs.

Never had 6 link, never had best uniques, hell I play end game content with just a bunch of 4-linked good items. Almost never traded anyway, I'm all self found except for boots, which are not that great.

Do i think that drop rates suck? No. Do i think that crafting sucks? Hell no! Although i spent around 200hrs into the game.

Which for many of hardcore players is nothing.
I understand the "causal" players. Still game which is online semi-MMO need to have more longevity than just 200 hours. Don't try to turn PoE into Ros, where there is no end game, cause after 200+ hours everybody will have everything. Think about it. Decent drop rates for exalts and chaoses means that it'll be Action House 3 all over again. U will get meaningless exalts, while the good stuff will cost 200-300 or more exalts per piece.
Come on. Most of us will never se a mirror drop, but its such a joy, that it can happen. The good thing though is - that we dont need that to master the game.

Agree completely. The crafting system doesn't deserve the name at all. The only reason you don't have legions of people cruising through all the maps, is that top % roll items are so rare that you will likely never see one in 2000 hours of gameplay.

As a result of this then, one drops every few weeks/months or is "crafted" that is to say the top 30 or so people have played the trading game for months on end,each has stockpiled 500 or so chaos orbs 50 or so ex and a few eternals. Between them having used all this currency they might scrape together one amazing 2h. And then they share it between each other with mirrors.

Didn't play trading simulator 9000? Sorry sir better luck next time. But an incremental system has it's own problems. Especially with how the game is set up, if i can just grab any 68+ weapons and then slowly build my phys% upto 200, I auto win the game with virtually any build. Ditto spell damage.

So it's difficult to resolve, basically you either have a slow guaranteed climb to godhood, or you just all or nothing with orbs and 99.99999999999% of the time you are unlucky, which is necessary in order to stratify the best of the best loot.

BUT WAIT. Maybe, we can combine the two. I use orbs in order to generate slots for me to put "shards" in, which allow me to pump a stat.

As an example:

Every item has X base shard slots. Higher level items more base slots (rolled on drop). Shards could be anything +X% spell dmg accuracy and so on. These also would have implicit value along with orbs as people would desire phys over accuracy. Higher level base items might have more shards. The shards could offer stats bonuses weighted in favour of their colour so this is in keeping with the weapon/armour types. I.e red armour red shards. Red shards could be phys dmg, fire res, hp. Blue shards: spell dmg, cold res, spell dmg, increased chill duration, reduced self chill duration. You get the picture. Hybrid armour gets the same extra benefits now which is more chance of all colours.

We could use orbs to either add another stack of shard slots (EX) to a limit. Randomize the amount of slots (Chaos). Colour of slots (Chromatic x20). We could even use this system manipulate poor rolls on an item. Just rolled some nice armour but got reflect attackers? Maybe a scouring and a chaos can randomly remove some shards.

Also this add more drops (more fun) to the game, and also crafting seems more engaging. You can even have players unlock things in the crafting station as the progress through acts. It adds a cool new area, more build enabling diversity (could have rare +max res shards). It even might fit in with lore if the shards are shattered virtue gems.

Obviously the particulars aren't worked out, I came up with this in approximately 5 minutes.

My thoughts on the skills system:
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But even the skill system, nor the web are as diverse as they seem initially. You have ~100 pts for an average build since 85+ is unlikely for most.
You find a path between key build enabling nodes (vaal pact/ondars guile/IR/CI/RT) whatever your build needs.

~25-30 pts are spent on primary stat X
~25-30 are on increase def stat X
~15 are on reduced aura cost
~rest are on increase dmg source X

Most (non HC) builds in a nutshell. HC is all def except where I'm forced into stat filler.

As for the skills....
Every build is basically:

Primary+ (GMP/Multistrike) + Pick supports that fit your skill. Or minions.

Your auras will either fix gaps in your defence or offense as needed.

There are some cool and creative things people have made, so I don't want to sound harsh on the system. Possibilities are there but they are either effective but slow, or require build enabling uniques only found in end game maps or for 291491249294119242914 ex orbs.

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Nochalo wrote:

Do i think that drop rates suck? No. Do i think that crafting sucks? Hell no! Although i spent around 200hrs into the game.

Play 300+ more hours and you'll most likely figure out that drop rates indeed sucks and same goes for gambli.. khheem crafting. Go try some 72+ maps with your 4 links. Would like to see how "effective" you are.
Also - we do have an auction house which is poe.xyz.is. To be honest - I see no difference between early D3 and POE. The idea is basically the same (you find nothing = you need to trade) though in POE you have so called build diversity (I wouldn't say so about HC leagues - but that's a different story).

Agreed with OP 100%. Hopefully GGG will figure out that the core of the game (looting) is just not fun at all in POE.

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Nochalo wrote:

People you need to realize, that in ONLINE environment you have to have low drop rates. Period.
Not terrible drop rates which takes fun from the game like D3 was at the beginning. Reasonable drop rates. And I think, we have reasonable ones right now. I finished merciless on Domination, I do some maps I got some orbs.

Never had 6 link, never had best uniques, hell I play end game content with just a bunch of 4-linked good items. Almost never traded anyway, I'm all self found except for boots, which are not that great.

Do i think that drop rates suck? No. Do i think that crafting sucks? Hell no! Although i spent around 200hrs into the game.

Which for many of hardcore players is nothing.
I understand the "causal" players. Still game which is online semi-MMO need to have more longevity than just 200 hours. Don't try to turn PoE into Ros, where there is no end game, cause after 200+ hours everybody will have everything. Think about it. Decent drop rates for exalts and chaoses means that it'll be Action House 3 all over again. U will get meaningless exalts, while the good stuff will cost 200-300 or more exalts per piece.
Come on. Most of us will never se a mirror drop, but its such a joy, that it can happen. The good thing though is - that we dont need that to master the game.

Your argument has one critical flaw; more grinding is not hardcore.

Dark souls is hard core. Dwarf fortress is hard core. Nethack is hardcore.

Bloody Korean grinding mmos like maple story are not hardcore.

Why the fuck are you writing a review on the forums, reviews are for people PLANNING to play the game, people on the forums have already played it

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Shagsbeard wrote:

I actually like the crafting system... it's what makes the game fun in the first place. But players who "need the best" find it "an abomination". Here's the thing... no one needs the best. You don't need 6L. You don't need your rares to be optimal. You don't need an item so good that the million players will all give you stuff just to look at it.

The crafting system allows you to dream of this stuff, and makes it next to impossible to obtain it. It's doing it's job perfectly. Yes, it's frustrating. If it weren't, you wouldn't value the items you could create. Yes, it relies entirely on luck. What else would you have it rely on? Skill? What skill?

I think that if you look at it... crafting in PoE is it's strongest point.

Your "bad" points are comments on your (and most players) playstyle... not on the game. If you were to play self found HC, you would find the game a lot more fun. You don't sit in town trading. That's the abomination. You find items all the time. You craft items occasionally. And you die, and get to play the game again. It's fun. You've turned the game into a job and are complaining it's not fun. Learn to have fun.

Yeah, you raise good points there. It is actually perfectly possible to play self-found on HC. Infact anyone reading this wondering how, "Isn't HC hard?". Not really. Pick the marauder. You see the nodes that say life on them. Get them. All of them. Grab various 2h, or if you want to spend the next 400 rather than 200 hours of your life mindless clicking ground slam, get a 1h+shield! mmm yummy block and more armour! Get reduced stun threshold items and nodes. Get any weapon that lets you use ground slam. Link ground slam with + dmg. Congrats you completed the game!

The point here is that the game has virtually zero implicit skill. The only skill based aspect of the game is racing. In which players compete to get to a high level AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. The hidden meaning being people here want to clear things quickly, quicker clearing -> more offense -> losing defense. It's a balancing act. It's a min max simulator that can be easily circumvented by trading. Funny that sound like another game we all know...

Resolvable by adding implicit skill to the game. I.e timed blocking, active healing skills (Seriously how the hell isn't this in) instead of leech leech leech. Active dodging (yeah there's a few movement skills but base execution times are horrendous). More Vaal slams. Not just hyper speed dogs that stunlock people to death in 0.1 seconds.

Incidentally a shout out to Dominus fight. That's good, really well done except a little cheesy in parts and the horrendous lag in there.