POE: The Best of Games and the Worst of Games

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Odoakar wrote:

Also, what irks me a bit about Chris post, is that he makes comparisons with how it was to grind in D2, but forgets that the average gamers age has risen significantly. When I was 16-17, I had all the time in the world to do meph/baal runs, but right now, the situation is quite different. The things I was able to do with D2, it's not possible to with PoE. It's not realistic to expect the same dedication from gamers today, what they had with D2 decades ago.

Did you consider the fact that maybe they made PoE for people that want to be as dedicated as they were in D2 but never found the game for that ?

In fact, Chris pretty much explains the basics, the fundamentals of the game :"we were d2 players, we made our game with that in mind, we want to give a similar experience to players, yet in a new and in a personal way". I think that's the main reason why they made PoE.

Why I'm telling this is because with all the negative yet sometimes constructive feedback we can read on these forums, I can understand (I didn't say "agree with") people that complain about specific topics about the game : "that build is broken, "can you give us loot allocations",... It's all for improvement, and it's nice.

But when it comes to give negative feedback about the basics of the game, I think there is a problem. There are many games with many approach of what is a good game, and every game has its own public based on its core philosophy. I understand why people stay and still have legitimate claims about particular topics they consider as problematic in the game, but I don't understand people that stay in the game but disagree with the main components of it (generic example : "that game is too much of a grind-fest", or "the game is too much gear dependent". They made the game to be a grind-fest, and people who like that will play it because of that). And I don't think it's legit to ask the devs to rethink about their core philosophy about their own game, because they want the game to be like that and most of players play it because it is build on a few main ideas they agree with and they don't find it elsewhere.

Same thing about people that sometimes "threaten" the devs to not buy a supporter pack or to leave the game if some fundamental things don't change : they must consider the fact that a lot of people, if not a large majority of PoE players, are there for components of the game that only a few consider as problematic, because these elements are part of the core of the game and are the reasons why a lot of them play the game, and GGG have much more to lose by listening to them.

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WhiteravenX wrote:

+1

Been following this game for a long time.

I hoped that this game would turn out epic!
And it partially did.


Chris comment just makes me disappointed though.


Maybe ill come back to this game someday with the hopes that the devs will change the awful crafting/loot mechanic's



The devs remind me of the story, Frog in the well

I've been logging in less and less and this post kinda went how I felt completely, Chris' comments were truthful but kinda put the nail in for me to take a leave of absence, and that's ok. I'd rather him not blow smoke and shoot straight. Obviously though the game IS what is it is. Chris isn't going to come out and say, OMGosh. This post is so revolutionary we're going to change it all right away.

These guys made a game they wanted to play and sacrificed a lot to do so, so it kinda is what it is. With games, sometimes companies stumble upon greatness, sometimes a product is ok, and most of the time its garbage, atleast PoE ISNT garbage. It's a good free product for some time period.

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

And I don't think it's legit to ask the devs to rethink about their core philosophy about their own game, because they want the game to be like that and most of players play it because it is build on a few main ideas they agree with and they don't find it elsewhere.

Of course it is legit to ask. Just like it is legit for the devs to respond "No, thanks." And then the chips will fall where they may, as they do.

In a healthy development environment it's the user's responsibility, or ability, to provide helpful feedback on things they think aren't working as intended or that have room for improvement. The devs have to figure out what to implement and what to ignore based on their fiscal realities and vision for the game.

And trolls just try to throw wrenches in the whole process. Amusingly, some of them actually think they're helping GGG by doing so.

Obviously the real world process is a bit messier than all that, but it's still the framework.

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CassCE wrote:

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

And I don't think it's legit to ask the devs to rethink about their core philosophy about their own game, because they want the game to be like that and most of players play it because it is build on a few main ideas they agree with and they don't find it elsewhere.

Of course it is legit to ask. Just like it is legit for the devs to respond "No, thanks." And then the chips will fall where they may, as they do.

In a healthy development environment it's the user's responsibility, or ability, to provide helpful feedback on things they think aren't working as intended or that have room for improvement. The devs have to figure out what to implement and what to ignore based on their fiscal realities and vision for the game.

I agree with you, but only for specific topics, not parts of the core philosophy of the game. To make an analogy, saying "I love PoE, but it is too much about grinding, please improve this" (once again, it's just an example) is in a way similar to come to a communist meeting and say "I love our party, but we should be confident about the free market and give less power to the states about the economy". They would just advice you that there are different political parties with different core ideas that fit yours, but they obviously wont change theirs. And that's fine.

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Odoakar wrote:

Also, what irks me a bit about Chris post, is that he makes comparisons with how it was to grind in D2, but forgets that the average gamers age has risen significantly. When I was 16-17, I had all the time in the world to do meph/baal runs, but right now, the situation is quite different. The things I was able to do with D2, it's not possible to with PoE. It's not realistic to expect the same dedication from gamers today, what they had with D2 decades ago.

Interesting market survey, btw:

http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

My gripe about PoE vs D2 is that GGG likens back to D2 but then in PoE gates the high-end items behind content you cannot access. In D2, with enough time and effort I could acquire/self-find everything in the game barring runes greater greater than Ohm and Tyrael's Might. Why? Because once I had a strong enough character, I could repeatedly run the areas of the game that were able to drop everything. In PoE, the best stuff is gated behind maps I'll never be able to access. I think this is complete bologna. Items being rare is not the issue. It's that I cannot even play in the areas of the game that drop the items I'd like to be able to find. Even the rich, team/multi-player, trading players have a hard time keeping a map pool to run the content capable of dropping the top end items.

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

I agree with you, but only for specific topics, not parts of the core philosophy of the game. To make an analogy, saying "I love PoE, but it is too much about grinding, please improve this" (once again, it's just an example) is in a way similar to come to a communist meeting and say "I love our party, but we should be confident about the free market and give less power to the states about the economy". They would just advice you that there are different political parties with different core ideas that fit yours, but they obviously wont change theirs. And that's fine.

Yeah but that's basically the "No, thanks" response.

It was a poor choice of analogies though, as something very similar to that actually did happen to Communist parties. And while they stuck to the "No, thanks" response for decades, eventually they were forced to make that change because what they were doing simply wasn't working.

PoE may find itself in a similar situation. Or it might not. Guess those that are still around will see.

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Chris wrote:

On the other hand, if the currency items dropped extremely rarely, then players would almost never get the chance to create a rare or to add mods to one. They'd be relying *almost* entirely on item drops, so it'd be far harder for items to converge on the best rares.

News flash, new players are penalized and treated like trash for this very reason you posted.
I have 3 characters, all from 52 to 66 level, and i only managed to accumulate 9 chaos, NINE !!!!
Do you know how much chaoses are needed to trade for somethign even decent?
Do you know how i play your game ? I farm starting area with no results, because of the gear gap, hoping on some items to drop, and that will never drop.
Maybe review your stance , because your pov penalise the new comers so much, that is almost guaranteed that 9 out of 10 new comers will stop playing the moment they reach end boss in cruel, or early stages of merciless....because they will lack gear, lack currency to buy that gear,and lack the power to farm the gear they need because level penalty will kick in.
I knew this from 1 and a half years ago.....i warned about this, and no one listened.

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Galtrovan wrote:

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Odoakar wrote:

Also, what irks me a bit about Chris post, is that he makes comparisons with how it was to grind in D2, but forgets that the average gamers age has risen significantly. When I was 16-17, I had all the time in the world to do meph/baal runs, but right now, the situation is quite different. The things I was able to do with D2, it's not possible to with PoE. It's not realistic to expect the same dedication from gamers today, what they had with D2 decades ago.

Interesting market survey, btw:

http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf

My gripe about PoE vs D2 is that GGG likens back to D2 but then in PoE gates the high-end items behind content you cannot access. In D2, with enough time and effort I could acquire/self-find everything in the game barring runes greater greater than Ohm and Tyrael's Might. Why? Because once I had a strong enough character, I could repeatedly run the areas of the game that were able to drop everything. In PoE, the best stuff is gated behind maps I'll never be able to access. I think this is complete bologna. Items being rare is not the issue. It's that I cannot even play in the areas of the game that drop the items I'd like to be able to find. Even the rich, team/multi-player, trading players have a hard time keeping a map pool to run the content capable of dropping the top end items.

I think people forget one of the brilliant elements of D2 was that normal hell level monsters could drop any item in the game. It was more efficient to run Ball or Mephisto but if you found a Windforce it was going to be from a normal or champion monster.

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Chris wrote:

The addition of currency items like Orbs of Alchemy and Exalted Orbs allow players to modify their items in a more directed way. The extent to which this game system is important depends on how often they drop.

Chris there are people like me who found 1 ( some 0 ) exalted orb drop in more than 1 year of playing PoE. So please...

+1 to the OP's original post. I would love to see the crafting system change. Right now I am sitting on a bunch of currency knowing I should not use it to craft, but I am too lazy to bother with the hassle of trading because I don't play the game more than an hour a day and would rather spend that time running around killing stuff than trading.