...::: SFL Poll results and conclusions :::...

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2ofSpades wrote:

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DirkAustin wrote:

Saying a SFL would be good for a fair ladder is also a lame excuse.

It is the same logic that is used to split hc from sc.

The same logic you say?

>In a HC if your character died you’re out of the league. This means, you must play at a different level - mistakes become very costly, much more so at high levels. Just think of the tension a HC player deals with when equipped with 100+ ex worth of gear and risking it all. This, most defiantly adds to the experience - suspense and danger, resulting in adrenalin rushes and damn near heart attacks when you come near death.

Another thing about the HC leagues is that you are only able to play with other HC characters, so you know everyone in your group is in the same boat - sometimes causing situations where you risk your characters life to help/save another player etc. also the economy is much better because of good items constantly getting removed.

That’s a whole lot of value for a league – no wonder its in so many ARPGs!

>In a SFL it means you are alone, you cannot join other players. The only purpose of this whole league would be so you can compare yourself with other players also playing solo.

A whole league so people can play solo?! Never mind that most of us already play solo in the other leagues most of the time unavoidably– that’s not good enough! You need to “compete” with other people all playing solitaire? There is NO value at all here; all it does is demand the least desirable game mode.

…

I remember reading literally hundreds of posts on this very forum from players who HATED having to play solo because they were afraid of “loot tension” so now we have “looting options” to accommodate them. What happened? The WHOLE GAME became permanent allocation! Not just for new players or those who where paranoid, but EVERYONE. Why? Because it’s easier! NO KIDDING. You can’t argue this, I join SA games all the time and when they get changed to PA, I ASK THEM and I always get some answer like “we don’t have to worry about looting and can just fight” etc.

This game was diminished in an effort to help people who were afraid of public games, now we need a permanent league to accommodate those who STILL won’t play public games? REALLY? NO. There is no need or anything gained in dividing the player base on this preference.

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iamstryker wrote:

I just wanted to point out that a SFL does not necessary mean playing solo. Most supporters that I have seen still want multiplier.

OK so,every item that falls, even white would need to be bound to each character even if everyone else in the group left the zone. Might as well make all loot individual and not see what others get. Each character would have to have their own individual stash separate from every other character on that account.

All this just to prevent the ability to trade... When in reality, trading is NOT the real problem anyway, its the "flippers" and "mr moneybags buys RMT" that are the real issue at the bottom of all this - and that is where we agree at least. It's a real shame that you cant have one without the other.

however... maybe. If you did have an arrangement as above (individual bound loot/no trading), then add a public auction board - where each char could only sell one item at at time (but not trade directly) items could be priced in orbs - you could have a kind of trade that could be controlled and very tricky to abuse... I once played an online game that had a system like this and when friends wanted give items away they would tell them the exact second the item was going up - they would price a super good item for maybe 1/100th value, and their friend who knew exactly what kind of item to look for, was ready to buy it immediately. Once I figured out what they were doing I started sharking the auctions refreshing it constantly and got pretty rich buying stuff before the other person could get it - foiling their transfers. no RMT seller would dare try this, and it was the best way people came up with to subvert it.

At this point though, we are talking about something very different then what PoE is now.
This would not be a 'flavor' league, it would be a 'better' game. (if it really worked) - and if that came to be, then ALL leagues should use that rule. (shared guild and account stash tabs would become useless)

Something like this does not necessarily have to negate all loot modes either - granted it would be possible for 5 people to agree to let the 6th guy pick what he wants first when looting. (slightly unfair behavior is possible) But that's a far cry from from trade manipulation to become rich or selling items directly. (even in a FFA loot mode, items that did not fall directly from monsters could be locked or invisible just like the PA mode - still no trading...)

EDIT... never mind about the trading suggestion, as again, with auction houses the "buy low sell high" crowd would take it over. - even if there was a fee etc.

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2ofSpades wrote:

It depends on whether the league has character bound items or account bound items. Self found league does not mean that you cannot share items across other characters from the same account in that league. That would have to be an additional rule.

thanks for clearing that up, and my apologies for not reading what your suggestions are before commenting on them. - I was always under the impression the SFL was solo and single character no trade.

3rd edit: I missed this earlier:

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2ofSpades wrote:

Sounds like the people that wanted permanent allocation were the majority then. Why is this a bad thing if people want it?

If the majority wants something then its justified? Since when? This is not game design by mob rule. This was a design decision that belonged only to the makers of the game. I feel strongly that GGG was "petitioned" to change their game against what they thought was better game play. The idea of options was seductive enough to go through because it sounded like a compromise to enough people.

I don't think GGG anticipated the dominating role of the PA usage - the real problem is that even players who enjoy loot tension do NOT enjoy fighting over things if they can avoid it, all it takes is for a small group to trend to one setting for it to be totally dominate because in a group of 6 players there will always be at least one person that will ask for PA loot setting and nobody will argue with them.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but when I host public games I dont even bother now, I just use PA like everyone else - even though I feel that public games are not nearly as fun with PA its just not worth the trouble. When its a choice the most important aspect of what "loot tension" did for the game are lost anyway.