XP loss goes against gameplay itself

I don't assume anything of you. So far, based on what I can tell from your thread:

1. You think the penalty for death is either unbased, and should be removed, or is too much and should be reduced.

2. You missed the entire point of my posts and I'll gladly attempt to explain them to you...however.

a) The rest of the quote above seems rather, nasty. I suggested that you look up a term because you didn't seem to get it. Read my post again. Keep in mind that whenever you take a "risk", you must keep in mind that desync, lag, and D/Cs can happen at any moment. So where your "risk" might work, it doesn't because you're system is not synced to the server, you lag, or you disconnect completely. You're running a much bigger risk than you might bargain for.

b) First off, the marauder "example" (which nobody seems to ever understand any examples no matter how clearly I make them), was about showing you how "easy" or "sensible" builds don't have much trouble. Much like was stated by someone else earlier, instead of focusing on the thing at hand you QQ about it elsewhere.

Moving on...

"

You've completely removed any element of risk from the equation!

By giving you a supposed "sensible" build example. In hopes of both helping you understand me and try something where you'll rarely die.

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You would have had a risky encounter with him when you were 10 levels under him, but you overcompensated tremendously! You made your number 15 before you engaged a boss that was a 10!

Actually, if I tried to kill him ten levels below it would be both stupid and impossible. He would one-shot my very miniscule health and the amount of material I would have to skip just to get to him would be pointless. Why would I skip everything and just go to him, if I need the experience anyways?

"

Congratulations, you accomplished nothing! And the game encourages this, because if you would have tried the risky encounter, and it would have failed, you would have been punished! Exactly why you overcompensated so severely, because the risk isn't a sustainable option!

Actually, I've killed Brutus at least four levels sooner than many other characters, which means I'm further on my way to higher level material to level even faster because level 20 monsters yield much better loot and more experience than level 15 monsters. Plus it means more quests are done which means more skill points and rewards, making me clear more content, faster.

Also, if I know something is risky, I usually have a plan to make it work. If it doesn't work, smart players have a plan to escape. For instance, if Brutus is about to kill you, you pop both health and speed potions. "Prior planning prevents piss poor performance", as my dad always says.

"

Congratulations, you accomplished nothing!

In helping you, most likely. However, I will still post this in the hopes that you actually read it and try to understand it instead of QQ at me.

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

Hahaha. You're comparing how people play in hc vs sc now? This conversation is about the death penalty in sc. And how people play there.

Know your area, know res types, advance. Risk v reward. No one should stay over leveled in sc. It's useless.

Edit: youve never watched a race, have you?

What is "SC"?

You're still missing the point entirely.

My gripe is that the -sensible option- is playing in such a manner that involves miniscule risk. I can do this. I can rarely die as much as I wish. And the way I manage this is by grinding content that involves no risk.

Meaning I would be spending my time playing a game where no risk is required, only grinding. Grinding safe content until you can safely grind other content is not an interesting manner of playing. If you're still progressing on your character without dying, you are not encountering the situation I am describing as challenging. You're still grinding safely.

"Why would I skip everything and just go to him, if I need the experience anyways?"
Perhaps you're even continuously engaging in this safe manner of grinding I am describing.

The only reason you engage in this behavior is because the punishment for failure is so severe.

Safe grinding is the best kind of grinding. never grind without adequate preparation. if you get gimped over by a dangerous map mod like ele weak or max resist then its your fault.

I do agree the game forces you to go a rather overly defensive playstyle and build but thats just the only way it can be challenging- by being able to screw over the player with spike dmg, desync, rng etc.

right now, the ideal way to play poe is stack life to the roof, get +life mods on all your gear, wear digusting +exp gear and rely on your gear and 6 linked main skill to do damage.

"

Laxinn wrote:

You're still missing the point entirely.

My gripe is that the -sensible option- is playing in such a manner that involves miniscule risk. I can do this. I can rarely die as much as I wish. And the way I manage this is by grinding content that involves no risk.

Meaning I would be spending my time playing a game where no risk is required, only grinding. Grinding safe content until you can safely grind other content is not an interesting manner of playing. If you're still progressing on your character without dying, you are not encountering the situation I am describing as challenging. You're still grinding safely.

"Why would I skip everything and just go to him, if I need the experience anyways?"
Perhaps you're even continuously engaging in this safe manner of grinding I am describing.

The only reason you engage in this behavior is because the punishment for failure is so severe.

I must be if you think I am.

The true "sensible" option is to gain the most experience, grind the most loot, and in every way save as much time in the game as possible. The time tested method from most games is to simply play and grind until you outlevel everything and then stomp over it.

You still missed my point about the marauder example. The risks you run with that is that you'll quickly need new and better gear, which is hard to get and craft unless you have a considerable amount of currency already, you'll push into higher level areas quickly, and you'll need to grind anyways. Oh, wait, everyone has to do that at some point.

Let me break it to you like this:

Games like Path of Exile require grinding. If anyone says they didn't grind, demand a video proving they played a player from start to finish to max level without any pause in the video. Everyone has to grind something at some point, no exceptions. Games like this require it. I've said it twice, and I'll say it over and over.

Especially with something like Path of Exile, where you'll need more gems from quest rewards, more currency, and more gear. As you play one character, you burn your currency to craft and buy merchandise, you find gear that would suit a different character, and you'll make mistakes in your skill tree or you'll grab something different than you planned. So even if you don't "grind" with one character, you really are since you pass gear to others.

You make it to be about "safe" and "risk" behavior, when it really comes down to only one question.

"How can I get this build (character, class, or whatever other term you so desire), to this point in a manner I like?"

The above question suites all players of all styles and answers all questions. How? Everyone wants to do something in this game. For a hardcore, try hard, perfectionist type player, they will spend time in the passive skill tree and use limitless currency from previous grinds to "pimp out" their character every step of the way and grind the areas senseless. This player has decided to facestomp the material so hard that he could do it drunk, high, asleep, blindfolded, handcuffed, and in a different room than his computer. Now, as to someone like me, where I play this for fun, I find something I like and what will work best. Discharger. Oh crap, two bone rhoas with more damage, faster attacks, regeneration, more energy shield, and a mob completely decimate me because I have no life. Why? I ran the risk of no armor and life, because I didn't want to respec any of my points. Because I ran that risk of saving myself the little effort it takes to acquire, say, 25 orbs of regret and using most of the respec points I get from quests, just for the sake of saving them, allowed me to run myself into a wall so hard that I raged about it on the forums.

So, instead of continuing about "risks" and what you want to talk about, let me pose a question to you:

Would you rather run a...

1. No risk, boring, bland, basic build that default attacks it's way through material once, never has to grind for anything until it's so drastically underlevelled, but never hits a wall.

Or...

2. A build that runs a risk, any risk, but gets roflstomped so hard that it is forced to either grind the living daylights out of your mind and the game, and isn't just boring, but so infuriatingly hard that you rage about it on the forums?

#2 here perfectly describes what you have already done, and you aren't the first to have done it.

Solution to QQ thread: Stop complaining about what you failed at and make your failure work. I promise you that if you take your "failed" build and make it work, you'll feel more accomplished and proud of yourself than anything else you could do in this game.

If I don't know any better, I would guess the same thing happened to you that happened to me with two of my builds.

Also, if you really want the help of anyone, either post here or make a new thread (and post it here so we can follow), so that feedback can be shown about your build. You'd be surprised how helpful some of the folks can be here if you get them to post on your threads. If you do post your build(s), ignore any and all "bad" or "iffy" feedback because it's usually just trying to provoke you and make you feel hopeless.

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Nephalim wrote:

xp loss is not about difficulty or punishment. its intended solely as a time and currency sink in order to extend to game's lifespan. the fact so many players are over level 95 shows the death penalty might actually be too merciful.

Nephalim's posts in this thread are 100% true. GGG will never admit the above but I absolutely guarantee, bet my house on it, that it's one of the biggest reasons there's an XP penalty. It's hidden under the veil of "bububu it makes the game more hardcore!"... that's nothing but a guise. The true reason for the death penalty and other ridiculous mechanics such as not having an Identify All button, or the inventory being stupidly small with 2H items taking up huge amount of space (compare this to D3, for example)... all of this is simply to extend the life of the game, to make you spend more time in the game, period. It's disgusting.

"

Laxinn wrote:

My gripe is that the -sensible option- is playing in such a manner that involves miniscule risk. I can do this. I can rarely die as much as I wish. And the way I manage this is by grinding content that involves no risk.

Once more, you say its the sensible option. Everyone disagree's with you. I would say thats the boring option.

Personally I don't do this, I have fun, and I don't die.

Your problem is that you keep assuming that you HAVE to do so, or that its the 'required' or 'sensible' or the 'option GGG want you to do'

But this is not true.

You are working on incorrect assumptions, then complaining about it




"Game requires me to grind until I am way overlevelled or else I die" <-- Wrong, races say no, my experience says no (I do have VERY good knowledge of the game, but my actual skill is most definitely average)



MANY people have told you that they have no problem with the death penalty. Why? Because they don't die. HOW? Not because they super grind, because they just play properly.


IF YOU ARE DYING YOU ARE PLAYING WRONG.

If you are FEARING death then thats good.

You then go on to suggest we should CHANGE it so that death is not as feared.

THIS IS A BAD THING





Death bad
Not dying good


Fearing death doesn't mean you HAVE to go play super grind, you can play just fine without doing this, I kill piety regularily from level 1->merc without having to grind above content. The opposite is my problem, I have to grind content to keep up my level as I go through instances without getting ENOUGH experience.


But you seem to be constantly complaining that you won't do something like fighting brutus in merc because if you die it might hurt, so you have to grind and super farm. But I say the opposite, the fact that if I die its bad is a good challenge, yet I will still go ahead and do so because its a challenge, its fun, and if it IS too hard (usually isn't if my level is within xp range) then I can back out and go grind IF I WANT TO.

How does the above situation change without xp penalty? ONLY difference is that you don't back out and die instead.... which as we stated above, DYING BAD

"

WAWAMELONS wrote:

"

Nephalim wrote:

xp loss is not about difficulty or punishment. its intended solely as a time and currency sink in order to extend to game's lifespan. the fact so many players are over level 95 shows the death penalty might actually be too merciful.

Nephalim's posts in this thread are 100% true. GGG will never admit the above but I absolutely guarantee, bet my house on it, that it's one of the biggest reasons there's an XP penalty. It's hidden under the veil of "bububu it makes the game more hardcore!"... that's nothing but a guise. The true reason for the death penalty and other ridiculous mechanics such as not having an Identify All button, or the inventory being stupidly small with 2H items taking up huge amount of space (compare this to D3, for example)... all of this is simply to extend the life of the game, to make you spend more time in the game, period. It's disgusting.

Also, they are injecting advertising directly into your brain, and poisoning your water, also downloading your harddrive while you play.

MORE CONSPIRACY CRAZINESS.

Lets list hte conspiracies here and how stupid they are

XP penalty is so it takes longer to get to level 100 <--- What? How does this work when hardcore you can reach level 100 aswell
Identify All button is to make the game take longer <--- Or.... To make you manage your number of identify scrolls. If you identify every magic, rare and unique, you WILL run out and have to make a decision about what to identify. If you just do rares, yes you can keep up identify scrolls, but then you are missing out on free alts
Inventory size is to extend the life of the game <--- Lol, or maybe its called opportunity cost. Why not just have unlimited inventory size, so you can just pickup everything. There is a limit for a reason, to make you CHOOSE what you take back or hold on to

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

"

WAWAMELONS wrote:

"

Nephalim wrote:

xp loss is not about difficulty or punishment. its intended solely as a time and currency sink in order to extend to game's lifespan. the fact so many players are over level 95 shows the death penalty might actually be too merciful.

Nephalim's posts in this thread are 100% true. GGG will never admit the above but I absolutely guarantee, bet my house on it, that it's one of the biggest reasons there's an XP penalty. It's hidden under the veil of "bububu it makes the game more hardcore!"... that's nothing but a guise. The true reason for the death penalty and other ridiculous mechanics such as not having an Identify All button, or the inventory being stupidly small with 2H items taking up huge amount of space (compare this to D3, for example)... all of this is simply to extend the life of the game, to make you spend more time in the game, period. It's disgusting.

Also, they are injecting advertising directly into your brain, and poisoning your water, also downloading your harddrive while you play.

MORE CONSPIRACY CRAZINESS.

Lets list hte conspiracies here and how stupid they are

XP penalty is so it takes longer to get to level 100 <--- What? How does this work when hardcore you can reach level 100 aswell
Identify All button is to make the game take longer <--- Or.... To make you manage your number of identify scrolls. If you identify every magic, rare and unique, you WILL run out and have to make a decision about what to identify. If you just do rares, yes you can keep up identify scrolls, but then you are missing out on free alts
Inventory size is to extend the life of the game <--- Lol, or maybe its called opportunity cost. Why not just have unlimited inventory size, so you can just pickup everything. There is a limit for a reason, to make you CHOOSE what you take back or hold on to

I expected this type of defensive, evangelistic reply and wasn't disappointed. They have you hook, line, and sinker. What Nephalim and I said is right on the money. That's all I'm going to say; I just don't care enough to type up a novel in response. Keep up the good work.

If what you say is true, then why do they not just decrease the amount of XP it takes to level up globally. This would increase the time to reach level 100 globally so you had to play for longer.

Why not make it so that you have to wait 30 seconds to heal in town, this would make it take longer when you go to base just to heal and pot up.

There is so much wrong with your argument, because the actual thought behind them just produces stupidity.

The conclusion, that it can make the game last longer, is true. But you are then creating a stupid reason behind it.

The sun rises in the morning. The sun rises every morning.

I raise my hand every morning, OMG I RAISED THE SUN