1.0 Passive Tree

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Zealflare wrote:

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DolphinCannon wrote:

But there are less keystones there..

...Which version of POE are you playing that has multiple keystones (not notables) right at the start of each class?

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Rogomatic wrote:

People assume many things, including that the nodes will improve, that you'll have a reasonably short path out, and that there will be no way to cross through the center.

The one thing they don't assume is that what you saw in the video is the final version of the tree... because, well, Chris said it isn't.

You mean you didn't assume that? =)

I believe there's a reddit post from Chris saying that the passive tree shown in the gamespot video isn't the final version, but one they used for the video at the time.

From Chris on Reddit:

"I should note that the tree has continued to undergo significant work since we snapshotted it for the media tour. It may differ substantially in the version you play."

Source link: http://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1npm93/100_skill_tree/

Almost every time I have needed to cherry pick from across the tree, it has not been the most efficient to go through the middle. The second to outermost stat highway ring is where I usually go, as it is fairly quick to get you around, and takes you within striking distance of a whole lot of useful passives.

Here to point out that "not final" is not the same as "significantly different"

Edit: at least in terms of effect on pathing.

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Rogomatic wrote:

Yes, can you please tell me how many nodes you'll need to get out of the immediate Scion area, and how efficient these will be?

4, and their efficiency will be build dependant, thats part of my point.

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Rogomatic wrote:

Right, I thought so too.

cool

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Rogomatic wrote:

But if I had to venture a guess... well, the nodes in the center (that is, within the circle), are currently probably the worst investment in the entire tree.

But yeah, by all means, roll a scion and spend 10-20 nodes on 0.4% life regeneration and 3% IAS before you even able to branch out to the individual areas of other classes.

ya but without that ring around the middle, its the only class that can do builds which go through the middle, and as youve just said, its horrible and inefficient. You point out why its crap to start those characters as a scion, which added to the fact the scion is the only one who can do the middle crossing builds now = my point.

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Autocthon wrote:

Shadow won't be getting near Marauder

no they will still be able to across the top, the classic Kripp freeze pulser moves from marauder start to shadow start along the top of the tree, so its not stopping this concept, its just destroying half the builds that do it indiscriminately while leaving another bunch completely untouched.

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Autocthon wrote:

Ranger won't be getting into Templar

no they will, down, along the bottom, get berzerking, through duelist, out past blood magic, up through marauder health then further up and into templar health through catalyse, standard blood magic elemental weapon build, res tech, path of life nodes. If you wanted to be more interesting and not go through the marauder then you are fucked, no difference power wise between the two paths, but one just got fucked.

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Autocthon wrote:

which makes sense. Those are the diametrically opposite classes.

well it would if it actually stopped what you are talking about, it doesnt, it just takes an axe to half the builds without fixing this 'problem' at all, and instead all these things are still possible with the scion, so the builds still exist, theyre just less efficient and we have to throw our lvl89 characters in the bin and reroll them as a scion instead, unless we were the marauders who went to the shadow over the top etc, in which case we are fine.

we haven't seen the 1.0 skill tree... not sure where some of you are getting your "opinions" from (other than pulling them out of your...).

Worth noting: On the video, Chris said that the tree we were seeing isn't the final version... thus we have NO IDEA if we'll be able to cross via the middle anymore. No point on bitching about it until we know.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

Shadow won't be getting near Marauder

no they will still be able to across the top, the classic Kripp freeze pulser moves from marauder start to shadow start along the top of the tree, so its not stopping this concept, its just destroying half the builds that do it indiscriminately while leaving another bunch completely untouched.

Good for classic kripprauder. Wish they managed to axe that build.

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Autocthon wrote:

Ranger won't be getting into Templar

no they will, down, along the bottom, get berzerking, through duelist, out past blood magic, up through marauder health then further up and into templar health through catalyse, standard blood magic elemental weapon build, res tech, path of life nodes. If you wanted to be more interesting and not go through the marauder then you are fucked, no difference power wise between the two paths, but one just got fucked.

Assuming that going through the middle (netting you a few nodes) would make the build more interesting is a pretty big assumption. Nodes excepting key nodes are literally nearly unnoticeably passive by the time you're getting into later levels.

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Autocthon wrote:

which makes sense. Those are the diametrically opposite classes.

well it would if it actually stopped what you are talking about, it doesnt, it just takes an axe to half the builds without fixing this 'problem' at all, and instead all these things are still possible with the scion, so the builds still exist, theyre just less efficient and we have to throw our lvl89 characters in the bin and reroll them as a scion instead, unless we were the marauders who went to the shadow over the top etc, in which case we are fine.

The change is literally hobbling non-focused builds, the fact that some builds remain (because you're literally converting one class into another then spending the entirety of your nodes on MOVING AROUND anyway) doesn't change that they're accomplishing a goal.

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Zealflare wrote:

...Which version of POE are you playing that has multiple keystones (not notables) right at the start of each class?

Sorry, i thought you were talking about the changes to the passive tree design. Well, now that you say it, yes there are a lot of noticable passives in the area, but they are located in different directions, so they still require you to invest a substancial amount of points to get to the next one.

How the hell am I going to get to vaal pact? I guess my reaver is fucked...

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYBA9sFtQyNDPINSQ5ID6sQexEvEZYV1xX9GYYeGiepKCoqOCsKLL8tHzBUMHw2PTvhPV89ZT8nQFVD0kcGUUdSU1M1Vi1WY19qY0NnHmp-bRltbG6qb1dwUnDVfVt_K3_Ghq6H24hrjb-PppKAmVeZmpu1naOio6R4pcumf6crpzSsf66TsbO0xbVItve-OsBRwQDBxcHVwfPC7MM6w23KStYH1orXhtsa3vji9-OE6yzrY-wY7UHtdu-g9Uv8q_-T

I wish I didn't seel those Bloodseekers.

I have a feeling at least 7 of my 11 characters will be unplayable when the new tree rolls out.

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Autocthon wrote:

The change is literally hobbling non-focused builds, the fact that some builds remain (because you're literally converting one class into another then spending the entirety of your nodes on MOVING AROUND anyway) doesn't change that they're accomplishing a goal.

non focused builds? lol


So lets see if Ive got this, you have just made up in your head that GGG dont want you building into other classes areas, despite them putting you all on the same tree and the game requiring you go to other classes, and GGG saying they want you to go to other classes, but youve decided its their goal to stop this, and despite the fact this doesnt stop that happening it was definitely the goal and it achieves it?


You are not converting classes btw, you are making builds that require nodes from multiple places, I hate to break it to you but thats why we are on the same tree, thats what is brilliant about the game, doing just that.

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Assuming that going through the middle (netting you a few nodes) would make the build more interesting is a pretty big assumption. Nodes excepting key nodes are literally nearly unnoticeably passive by the time you're getting into later levels.

there are keystones in the middle, not blood magic and resolute technique, other more interesting keystones. Its not an assumption, Ive played the game.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

The change is literally hobbling non-focused builds, the fact that some builds remain (because you're literally converting one class into another then spending the entirety of your nodes on MOVING AROUND anyway) doesn't change that they're accomplishing a goal.

non focused builds? lol


So lets see if Ive got this, you have just made up in your head that GGG dont want you building into other classes areas, despite them putting you all on the same tree and the game requiring you go to other classes, and GGG saying they want you to go to other classes, but youve decided its their goal to stop this, and despite the fact this doesnt stop that happening it was definitely the goal and it achieves it?


You are not converting classes btw, you are making builds that require nodes from multiple places, I hate to break it to you but thats why we are on the same tree, thats what is brilliant about the game, doing just that.

Reducing ability to go everywhere does not equate to reducing variance and player choice. It forces creativity in how you accomplish getting to other areas, or forces you to consider an alternative build if it simply cannot work on a class. Currently every build is cherrypicking primary keystones across the entire tree and are losing nothing in return With a change increasing investment requirements to cross trees you'll be choosing between keynodes.

Not difficult logic here.

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Assuming that going through the middle (netting you a few nodes) would make the build more interesting is a pretty big assumption. Nodes excepting key nodes are literally nearly unnoticeably passive by the time you're getting into later levels.

there are keystones in the middle, not blood magic and resolute technique, other more interesting keystones. Its not an assumption, Ive played the game.

The following kestones are in the center of the tree:

Necromantic Aegis: Used by only a few niche builds. Access has not been curtailed to any build that actively uses this node, unless there's some weird Duelist/Summoner thing out there (which would be more efficent starting anywhere else anyway).

Vaal Pact: One of the most contested nodes in the game due to the way it works. Preventing easy access to VP+GR is probably a design goal at this point to make VP less of a no-brainer and more of a decision point.

Conduit: The primary users of conduit are "charge generator" builds. The positioning hasn't been heavily compromised (the best charges to share en masse are endurance and power), however it does put Scion in the unique position of being the "go-to" multi-charge conduit bearer. Not a terrible position.

Iron Grip: Position largely uncompromised. Any phys-based ranged users in the northern part of the tree are unlikely to have exceptional strength. Also this is a no-brainer node anyway, so making "start position" a choice when going for it is actually a good thing.

So yes. So many keystones that being made less universal will break. Oh wait.

As far as crossing the tree goes the outer edge and inner circle are both available. The point is to make choosing a non-optimal start point for a build a decision point and not a freebie. If the devs REALLY thought every class should be exactly the same they would have them all share the same tree... and all start in the center.