1.0 Passive Tree

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raics wrote:

Off-beat stuff not being possible at all?

ya, well, many 100s of fun current builds and path possibilities being destroyed to validate 1 new class that is now not only op compared to the others, but is still shit compared to how all the others used to be when you could move through the tree.


I know what ur saying raics, I know it comes from an honest place and you are right, there have been many changes, people flipped out... and then it was all ok. But this completely cuts off large portions of the tree for many classes, all the characters I play will not have any way to do what theyre doing with that tree. These arnt op builds, these are just decent, playable, fun builds and to just cut them out of the game, 100s of them, an extremely large chunk of the current games potential builds, its just taking a wrecking ball to the game and wheres the benefit? To make the new class the most important class in the game? I dunno man, I share your general point of view, I hear what you are saying, but on this issue I just cant let it slide without bringing this up.

I was hoping they were not going to make my builds less point effective when they changed the middle, I wasnt really ready for my characters to be thrown in the bin along with the very idea of how they build stopping any builds of that sort from existing, taking the diversity of all 6 characters and shitting on it to add 1 super character whos just a shit version of what everyone used to be. Its just all destruction and I dont see anything good about it, I feel complete despair for the game. I woke up this morning happy, eager to see what new stuff was in the expansion that my characters could tackle, now I dont even have characters, I have gear and respecs on now shit classes that cant do what I was doing before and I have to reroll 5 scions to get back shit versions of what I had that waste points on nodes I dont need. I wanted to be positive, but its just not there. But I mean no harm to you and Im sry if Ive been agro to you personally, I do hear what you are saying and I hope its true.

12 pages but I want to make sure this gets said: It looks like there are cross-loops to neighboring class areas through the middle, which should be *a little* shorter than going around the tree on the outside or going through the central hub.

But yes. Totally removing "Look at me get everything no matter what class I am"

Note: I am firmly of the belief that this is GOOD for the health of builds, currently the only difference between a Marauder and a Witch is what skills you're getting from quests.

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Autocthon wrote:

12 pages but I want to make sure this gets said: It looks like there are cross-loops to neighboring class areas through the middle, which should be *a little* shorter than going around the tree on the outside or going through the central hub.

But yes. Totally removing "Look at me get everything no matter what class I am"

Note: I am firmly of the belief that this is GOOD for the health of builds, currently the only difference between a Marauder and a Witch is what skills you're getting from quests.

For a lot of people the character itself is half the build.

If I wanted to make a big muscular spellcaster, I wouldn't select witch as my class, I'd go for the marauder and work my way to the spellcasting parts from there.

what scion does, is simple:
Unless you plan to make a build that does not go through the middle, you're better off picking Scion.
this is just retarded.

I really dislike being forced to take a certain character...
They should just remove all classes and move everyone to the middle of the tree.

Edit: yeah, I'm convinced that 90%+ characters will be scion. It's now the only class able to build into pretty much anything.
GG GGG.

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Idioticus wrote:

what scion does, is simple:
Unless you plan to make a build that does not go through the middle, you're better off picking Scion.
this is just retarded.

Even currently, you're always better off picking a class that's closer to the nodes you want. Some people sacrifice a handful of nodes for avatar looks -- but in principle not much will change with the Scion.

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Rogomatic wrote:

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Idioticus wrote:

what scion does, is simple:
Unless you plan to make a build that does not go through the middle, you're better off picking Scion.
this is just retarded.

Even currently, you're always better off picking a class that's closer to the nodes you want. Some people sacrifice a handful of nodes for avatar looks -- but in principle not much will change with the Scion.

you didn't see the part where the witch had to use over 50 points to get over the tree. that's MUCH MUCH more than previously.

The scion is closer to all the nodes by default. This is horrible design.

I agree that there should be a path through the center and I don't see a reason why there shouldn't.

However if they add team pvp modes I'll forgive them everything, even the desync

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Idioticus wrote:

you didn't see the part where the witch had to use over 50 points to get over the tree. that's MUCH MUCH more than previously.

I've got no idea what you're talking about -- so I guess I haven't seen the part, and to my knowledge no-one has actually seen the final version of the passive tree anyhow.

But tinkered a bit with the present version: it currently takes 23 points for the Witch to go to Berseking through the middle, and 31 to do it on the perimeter. Doesn't sound as a terribly large difference to me. People underestimate how terribly node-inefficient the center of the three is.

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stdcall wrote:

I agree that there should be a path through the center and I don't see a reason why there shouldn't.

The reason why GGG thinks there shouldn't be:

Anybody who currently goes through thee center now has to remake as a scion!!

Think of all that "longevity" that gets them!

The preview of the tree looks ridiculously bad. youve just broken every build which traversed somewhat through the center.

I do not want to level a new main just because you gimped my old tree out of 4-6 passives. There is no longevity in forcing me to mindlessly grind another character to 97 just because i want the 6 passive nodes you took away. I picked my current class and build after carefully planning structuring only to have it made sub par with the release of a new class?

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That tree is so far off supporting the current diversity we have that for it to ever exist is seriously worrying and I think it needs pointed out right now with as much time to change it as possible.

This is why I'm posting somewhere my opinion won't be heard. One more post for the count, right?

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Unless you plan to make a build that does not go through the middle, you're better off picking Scion.

I make builds. Some of them go through the middle, some do not. There is already a trade-off for heading in there: a LOT of points are spent on travel, if you're doing a completely cross-tree build. (CI VP US anyone?) Compare my Ranger or Shadow builds, half a tree, very few travel nodes in between. End result? Doing endgame maps in <5 ex of gear, not all of which is necessary. Because I got enough fun non-travel stats from passives, because I chose to stay within the one area. On the other hand, pretty much any cross-tree build has to do some really funky stuff with gear or gems, because their points have been spent moving around.

I am assured that I'll make at least a couple of Scions. For characters that go around the edge instead of through the centre, no difference that I can tell.

But this is the problem I have with it: Scion is STRICTLY BETTER than any other class for a build which passes through the "normal" class's starting area and goes toward the centre. There should not be STRICTLY BETTER for builds that hit multiple classes' starting areas.

Or use a different example, witches and shadows can both easily build CI. If I'm making a build and I plan to go CI, say a 1h/shield crit build, I should be able to pick witch based on "witch gives me a bit of mana and faster escape, but shadow has more stat-sticks", and not "witch gives me access to other useful areas of the skill tree for CI, shadow does not". The first is a meaningful choice, the second is barely an illusion of choice.